Airlines In The Philippines II

[Arianespace]

According to industry standards, airlines refreshes their cabin between 5 to 10 years to remain competitive in the market.

I asked one LTP worker, during PAL refurbishment of its 744 before, about cabin refurbishment and she was more or less on the spot.  

Airlines usually change their business class cabin between 5-8 years while economy cabin between 6-12 years. Most airlines they worked with in the past changed their cabin altogether between 6-8 years old prior to their retirement.

One example she gave is Virgin Atlantic. When i asked why is this so, the answer was for this airline to remain competitive with their product offering. So they are updating the product to stay competitive.

With that timeline, two 777 is already out of range, both being 13 years old. If PAL intends to prolong its service, they just have to update its cabin, and they are good to go for another 6-8 years.

The issue with the 744 however is a long story. It wasn't supposed to be updated but replaced by 777 from 2006. Unfortunately, we were placed in category 2 by FAA, if you can remember that, preventing PAL from introducing new planes to the US and for which reason delaying its delivery. Because of its new cabin, it continue to fly until 2014, a whooping 22 years.

[Arianespace]

Also, cabin refurbishment happens during D check, usually taking a month to be installed. D checks itself last about 2 months, and they occur between 6-10 years, depending on the flight cycles.

The PAL 744 was forced to retirement because they are nearing the next D-checks. It went three D checks already before being retired because the 4th one is forthcoming and the cost is more expensive than the net value of the aircraft.

As for the 777, cost of D-check hovers between US$4-5 million, while cost of cabin refurbs hovers between $15-20 million. Clearly, PAL did not opt for the latter when its 777 was on maintenance bay.

[XWB_flyer]

Could mean PAL doesn't intend to keep there B777 till the end of the decade to 2030's. Considering there not planning to refurbished them or refit them with Premium Economy which isn't so hard just remove a couple of rows of regular economy seats and add seat to compensate for the capacity reduction in Y If PAL was intended on keeping there B777 in service longer they would have refurbished them already or even add Premium Economy cabin by 2018 or 2019. But since management didn't means they will exit the fleet sooner rather then later. I wonder if 318 seat A359 can cominsate for the lost of 370 seats on the B777? Although the door is also open for the A350-1000 as a B777 replacement as PAL hasn't lost interest although I'm also thinking PAL will keep then as A359 to compensate for the temporary lost of 4 A350-900?

[Solblanc]

Well, given that Airbus is claiming that it’s sculpted walls will allow for a more comfortable 10-abreast config in economy, then there will be very little difference in capacity between an A35K and a 77W.

[XWB_flyer]

A cheaper alternative for PAL over the  A350-1000 would be to order an Extra-capacity version of the A350-900 with higher capacity around 320-330 seater with a smaller J-cabin and W cabin being behind doors 2 with economy taking the bulk of after doors 2 to doors 4. It can partially replace the B77W on pax point of view. But cargo will depend on the WV the highest is 280-283t which may able to cross the pacific up to west coast of the US and Canada. But cargo wise may not be a full replacement the same with the A35K although being bigger has its advantages.

[Arianespace]

This was actually the Airbus selling point when pitching the 35k to PR, and for the same passenger number could actually carry more cargo volume than the current 77w.

PAL insider I talked to at the time of JJB helm stated they will not go down that 10 abreast route for the 35k when they finally decide to take this frame. It becomes uncomfortable in long haul.

[JNC03]

Will PAL get them soon?

[Arianespace]

Here is the answer to your question, as posted by Evodesire way back in February of 2018:

In reply to this post by Maortega15

JJB talks about A350-1000 orders. https://businessmirror.com.ph/naia-terminal-2-to-become-domestic-hub-of-pal-cebu-pacific/

Bautista endorsed the A350-1000 as a better version of the A350-900, six of which PAL expects to be delivered this year.

Asked if PAL would buy A350-1000, which can seat 370 passengers against the 295 that A350-900 can seat, he said it is possible.

“The six on order cannot be replaced because four are already in the production line, but the remaining two could be converted into the A350-1000. But we need six, so maybe additional order of six more A350-1000,” he added, saying that PAL has six more additional options that it can exercise in 2019.

He said Airbus imposed no deadline on when to deliver the six more options, but added, “probably for the 2020 delivery.”

Well, those days have come and gone. Desire to acquire are still there though.

[Solblanc]

Well, the new standard wasn’t available then.  Wider a350 cabins are available now. Their 77Ws have 17.2” seats. Airbus claims one can fit 17” seats at 10-abreast now. Virtually little difference. And if it does make a difference, they can offer a premium economy cabin for those that need more space.

It’s practically a 1:1 replacement. While the 77X is attractive, China is opening up, and Chinese carriers are going to be flooding transpacific capacity again in a few years. So they have to make their bread and butter routes competitive again. Either refurbish or replace those 77Ws already

[Arianespace]

Still, the position is the same. It is a long/ very long haul aircraft

If the flight to HNL is any indication, PAL frowns upon dense aircraft configuration. For a reason. As was cited in the earlier post. The bread and butter route of North America handles premium paying passengers. And its competitors holding the neck of PAL with respect to its personal space. If you ask for premium fare, you must give them some space. By the way, the one offered by Airbus is 9 abreast not 10.

I would have agreed if the same type is used in the middle east as they are cramping the A333 with 9 abreast. But if you look at Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, and Hawaii bound fleets its all 8 there.

[JNC03]

Will PAL take the chance and meet Airbus executives during the state visit of Marcos Jr. in France to talk about future orders or deals?

The state visit is scheduled on June this year

[Arianespace]

The word is "Maharlika Investment Fund" at the sidelines. One of the main agenda is the propose submarine procurement. But this is aviation forum so will stick to what is applicable.

Again, the GOP talking this time to Airbus offers for its procurement. In similar fashion Boeing presented theirs. And the most likely candidate is the 35k of course. So we go back again between 77x and 35k contest.

In the military front is the French revived offer for two A400M. It seems they are bend on taking the pending orders for 3 C-130J away from Lockheed Martin. Kinda remind me of the submarine sale to Australia. C130 cost around US$80 million while A400 cost around $120 million. France is willing to loan us money to buy this bird. Which is interesting. We could have 4 of this flying if deal pushes through. This bird was offered to us 9 years ago, but we passed on the offer because loans are available for civil application but not military procurement. Apparently, France has lifted loan restrictions to military use to help its aviation industry badly damaged by covid. Story is here. Sorry its in French. Our buying points is focus on disaster relief. Lets see how France make this happen.

[Solblanc]

JNC03 wrote

Will PAL take the chance and meet Airbus executives during the state visit of Marcos Jr. in France to talk about future orders or deals?

The state visit is scheduled on June this year

As a general rule, the French will always mix politics with business. Every single state visit, the French will make sure their plane makers, defence contractors, and any other big business that can snap up a contract will be there.

[JNC03]

Airbus can offer A350-1000 previously allocated to Qatar Airways like they did to Cebu Pacific with ex AirAsia X A330neos

[JNC03]

For their offers to PAF

Since PAF needs cheap but good new assets, they will consider offers of France if its priced right for them. They are also planning to acquire ATR for maritime patrol

[Arianespace]

Speaking of PAL services, PAL is re-activating 8 abreast RP-C8786 from BBAM to address dire fleet problems.

[JNC03]

Returned to lessor planes are now returning to PAL again, signs of recovery?

Wondering if it will arrive in Manila in all white because the aircraft is repainted to all white by its lessor last year

[Arianespace]

Well, lets wait and see when it arrives this afternoon.

[Arianespace]

Speaking of Maharlika Investment Fund, interestingly BBAM aircraft leasing is owned by Government Investment Corporation, a sovereign wealth fund of the Republic of Singapore.

This is exactly what BBM government is trying to achieve with respect to sovereign wealth fund of the Republic of the Philippines. So you see why Boeing and Airbus is lining up to meet him.

[chowpau]

As PR5001..as of this writing, it is over Cambodia together with CEB930