Airlines In The Philippines II

[Solblanc]

Evodesire wrote

I believe that the A330 is optimized for the ME routes and I doubt PAL switching manufacturer after what came out in FlightGlobal. Just maybe to "update" with the A330-900 but not to change. 5J's 459-seater A339 speaks a lot about how optimized the aircraft is to serve the ME market. And rumors has it that 5J are considering to reopen some ME routes like RUH and DOH, considering the amount of A339Ns they'll be taking in.

I just can't imagine myself though taking a 9-hour flight on seats that don't recline but if it sells well to the OFWs in the ME, then I guess its all good for them.

There are more than a million OFWs in the Mideast, and a lot of them are paid only $400 a month. Yes, there are people with bigger salaries, but for a lot of them, it’s still very important to save, and good for them if their employers pay for the likes of EK or QR. It’s not ideal comfort but it does make it affordable.

Also, the 9-abreast A330s also make for a good domestic shuttle to CEB.

[JNC03]

Or the embargo is still in place

If he told FlightGlobal that they choose this or that, If they planned something for Paris Airshow it will be pointless since he revealed the surprise (sort off)1🤣

Yes he mentioned A350-1000 specifically last march because they are interested in purchasing before and the choice is very obvious.

But for the three aircraft mentioned in the article, the interest to them is just recent. And besides no one expected that PAL will replace their medium-haul fleet too until recently, all avgeeks have in mind is the long haul fleet because of its age, cabin, operating costs and nearing expiry of lease contracts.

[Arianespace]

Solblanc wrote

The A359 did beat the 787-9 in a previous battle for PAL’s wallet, but the requirement back then was ULH.


The last time Boeing won a PAL order, the 77Ws benefitted from previous 744 deposits. Right now, you last said 5 frames and 2 options. Is that what we’ll see in the Paris Airshow? We were under the impression that the 787 was a done deal. I wonder why the announcement of several medium-haul choices?

I think its presumptuous to say the 787 is a done deal without the contract being signed. While it is true that they are in PAL radar very recently, they were already in fleet planning since 2012. Like what I said in the previous posts, SMC wanted the 789 and got the six A333 instead. In 2016, the 789 was again in contention and got booted by the A359 which turn out a much better plane. In 2021, the b779 was paired with the A35k and the latter won, with the order announced in 2023. Similarly, the b789 was paired with the A339, in the same year, and  the order has not been made yet. which do you think is the better plane?

The A359 was meant for east coast and eu operations when it was ordered in 2016. Which they did. The project sunrise A35k was certified only in 2021, which can fly east coast with ease. In 2018 when the A359 was delivered the A35k was far an inferior bird than what it is now.

The rationale is best described in fleet planning that i posted previously. Still, that is not cast in stone, like what happens when the 5 b789s suddenly became six A333, or the 13 21n which were supposed to be delivered in 2020 is still to be delivered in 2026. Those kind of stuff. fleet plan doesn't always go as planned.

[Arianespace]

Evodesire wrote

And rumors has it that 5J are considering to reopen some ME routes like RUH and DOH, considering the amount of A339Ns they'll be taking in.

I just can't imagine myself though taking a 9-hour flight on seats that don't recline but if it sells well to the OFWs in the ME, then I guess its all good for them.

That isn't rumors as they are true.

[JNC03]

They also want to use A321XLRs on ME flights (routes with less demand)

[JNC03]

The plot thickens if they decide to order both this time🤔

How unpredictable fleet planning is specially Stan is now outside the country where he meet a lot of people that can influence his say on aircraft orders

[XWB_flyer]

JNC03 wrote

They also want to use A321XLRs on ME flights (routes with less demand)

I could see the A321XLR being used to open new routes to Australia, India and some Middle East Routes that won't justify the bigger A330neo.

[JNC03]

Boeing's new higher gross weight 787s will add 310nm of range to the 787-9, and 430nm to the 787-10.

https://theaircurrent.com/feed/dispatches/boeing-details-787igw-performance-improvements/

PAL's investor ANA wants to order more 787 to boost its medium haul fleet

[Evodesire]

PAL and CEB have been enjoying full loads on their ME flights. Even with premium carriers like EK and QR shuttling these OFWs from the Gulf to the Philippines, our local carriers are enjoying a high pax load, even if they are not equipped with amenities that the gulf carriers offer. Looks like their strategies are working, and it also proves that the A330s are fully optimized to serve these markets from the Philippines.

[Arianespace]

PAL minority shareholder ANA is buying 100 B787s according to Reuters.

 Japan's All Nippon Airways (ANA) wants to grow its short and medium-haul fleet by 2030, especially expanding the Boeing (BA.N) 787 planes it has on order, CEO Shinichi Inoue said on the sidelines of an aviation conference in Istanbul on Monday.

ANA is still not operating the number of aircraft it did pre-COVID but expects to get to that level by 2025 and exceed that number by 2030, Inoue said, adding that by then it wants to have more than 100 Boeing 787s in its fleet.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ana-ceo-looks-boost-fleet-with-boeing-787-launch-low-cost-airline-2023-06-05/

[Solblanc]

Arianespace wrote

PAL minority shareholder ANA is buying 100 B787s according to Reuters.

 Japan's All Nippon Airways (ANA) wants to grow its short and medium-haul fleet by 2030, especially expanding the Boeing (BA.N) 787 planes it has on order, CEO Shinichi Inoue said on the sidelines of an aviation conference in Istanbul on Monday.

ANA is still not operating the number of aircraft it did pre-COVID but expects to get to that level by 2025 and exceed that number by 2030, Inoue said, adding that by then it wants to have more than 100 Boeing 787s in its fleet.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ana-ceo-looks-boost-fleet-with-boeing-787-launch-low-cost-airline-2023-06-05/

Isn’t the ANA stake really diluted at this point, though? Does ANA still have a seat at the board?

[JNC03]

Can ANA trade some of their 789 delivery slot in exchange for more shares in PAL?

Or PAL can lease some decent 789 from ANA?

[XWB_flyer]

I'd imagine majority of them will go to to either ANA or Air Japan, while some may go to their minority-controlled airlines like VN and PAL?

[Arianespace]

Solblanc wrote

Isn’t the ANA stake really diluted at this point, though? Does ANA still have a seat at the board?

ANA's stake was diluted to 4.75 percent from 9.75 percent pre C11. Yet, it elected  Junichir Miyagawa as director of PAL Holdings, and Philippine Airlines.

In Corporate law, you don't have a director seat if you own less than 10 percent. Something does not add up. ANA is holding something else.

JNC03 wrote

Can ANA trade some of their 789 delivery slot in exchange for more shares in PAL?

Or PAL can lease some decent 789 from ANA?

Now, you are talking

XWB_flyer wrote

I'd imagine majority of them will go to to either ANA or Air Japan, while some may go to their minority-controlled airlines like VN and PAL?

PAL doesn't need 20. Six or Seven will do

[XWB_flyer]

Arianespace wrote

XWB_flyer wrote

I'd imagine majority of them will go to to either ANA or Air Japan, while some may go to their minority-controlled airlines like VN and PAL?

PAL doesn't need 20. Six or Seven will do

Six and seven? I was expecting PAL would need at less 12 B789 to operate 4 routes or frequency. Especially when launching flights to CEB and North America.

[Arianespace]

They already have six A359

[JNC03]

Leasing from them or having some of there delivery slots is nice

For PAL they can be early on the linenor operating the aircraft, for ANA they can have more shares or source of income from leasing 789s to PAL

[Arianespace]

While the new Q400NGs are PAL, did you know that the old Q300 and Q400s came from ANA? Just think about that for a sec. PAL already operated ANA planes before.  

[JNC03]

What a long friendship of the two airline and now it will happen again

[Arianespace]

JNC03 wrote

Boeing's new higher gross weight 787s will add 310nm of range to the 787-9, and 430nm to the 787-10.

https://theaircurrent.com/feed/dispatches/boeing-details-787igw-performance-improvements/

I think the new HGW of the B789 (6000kg) +6t MTOW from 55t, made PAL reconsider its choice, as it clearly blow the A339 competition away from the 52t-55t comparison to 52t-61t MTOW difference. That weight difference translate to additional 750-800nm to its advertised range of 7,500nm, or additional 2 hours of flying time, which more than satisfy its needs for a 6,500nm plane that carries 47tons across the pacific.

Note, the next big plane, the a359 is the 78t variant. 61t-78t MTOW spells a lot of difference.