Airlines In The Philippines II

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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

seven13
Arianespace wrote
Whatever is available when they need it for cargo run. That is the power of flexibility. Normally, its flown by 321N.

The plan that I heared is already 5 LAX and 4 SFO daily rotations soon. So your calculations is too conservative. They already tested 4 to LAX and 3 to SFO ex MNL. Stan was very delighted with the results. And then there is CEB but its not LAX alone. SFO is added to the mix. And then they are planning to add frequency to YVR too. That needs a lot of plane. And it couldn't be the biggest one flying all the time.

So youe suspicion is possible. I could already see them using circular service MNL-LAX-CEB-MNL  as a possibility also. Circular because when it arrives in CEB early morning it then goes back to MNL for another flight to LAX on the 11am departure, while another one doing it in opposite direction doing LAX/SFO from CEB at 10pm. In the alternative, it could do belly run to China. So it stays most of the time in the air, making money, which is actually good strategy for an expensive plane.
Do you mean 5 and 4 rotations to LAX and SFO daily?
I couldn’t remember 4x LAX. The most can I remember is 3, 2 ex-MNL and 1 ex-CEB using the A340. For SFO, it never went double daily, max was around 10/wk if I remember correctly, only during last winter when they shifted PR114 to noon time dep from MNL.

No more cargo runs since pax flights to China resumed. All cargos are now loaded onto the regular flights. Most of the time, it can’t fit all cargos due for that day so the excess will have to wait for the next flight. I was hoping PR would open regular service SZX mainly for cargo and pax secondary.

BTW, is there any news on the leased B777? I was hoping it would be leased soon so that the current 777s could get the much needed maintenance service.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer
In reply to this post by seven13
Curious how those PAL rotate their aircraft for transpacific flights is most carriers usually assigned 3 aircraft to operate 1 route when it comes to long-haul. For PAL it seem to be the rule of halve with 2 aircraft being constantly deployed for transpacific flights or very short regional flights within Asia when thier is spare time.

Also curious if PAL have plans to added more destinations in North America besides YYZ, YVR, LAX, SFO, and LAX? Maybe SEA or ORD? Which the B789 and A359 can operate assuming YYZ is upgraded to the A35K in the future!
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

seven13
XWB_flyer wrote
Curious how those PAL rotate their aircraft for transpacific flights is most carriers usually assigned 3 aircraft to operate 1 route when it comes to long-haul. For PAL it seem to be the rule of halve with 2 aircraft being constantly deployed for transpacific flights or very short regional flights within Asia when thier is spare time.

Also curious if PAL have plans to added more destinations in North America besides YYZ, YVR, LAX, SFO, and LAX? Maybe SEA or ORD? Which the B789 and A359 can operate assuming YYZ is upgraded to the A35K in the future!
During JJBs time, the B747 were used to fly to regional hops after coming in from a longhaul flight. HKG on PR300/306, the A340 used to do BKK as PR730, PVG gets the B747 too. When RSA took over, as the B744 were aging and maintenance was extremely costly, was it called fleet/route rationalization(?), the B744 were strictly doing longhaul ops only and the A330 took over the regional routes the B744 used to fly to. When SMC relinquished control, its operations remained the same. The B777s were strictly doing longhaul flights only. The triclass with occasional switch to biclass, were dispatched to HK, JP, KR, SG and TH.

Post pandemic, since there is a lack of A333, the B777 are substituting in when demand is high for a particular route. Just the other day, BKK was flown by the B777(730) and A350(736). I guess due to lack of aircraft, the B777 is temporarily being used for regional flights on certain days.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

JNC03
In reply to this post by Arianespace
A35K is excellent for that plan considering that it is configured with 350+ seats

Airbus can deliver that earlier too
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer

I wonder if the A351 will have a PECY cabin like the A350? Since the planned configuration 350+ seats I imagine it will be a small cabin with its own dedicated lavatories. Also BCL will probably be comparable if not slightly higher then the B77W. But not as high as CX with 46 seats.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

Arianespace
Administrator
In reply to this post by seven13
seven13 wrote
Do you mean 5 and 4 rotations to LAX and SFO daily?
I couldn’t remember 4x LAX. The most can I remember is 3, 2 ex-MNL and 1 ex-CEB using the A340. For SFO, it never went double daily, max was around 10/wk if I remember correctly, only during last winter when they shifted PR114 to noon time dep from MNL.

No more cargo runs since pax flights to China resumed. All cargos are now loaded onto the regular flights. Most of the time, it can’t fit all cargos due for that day so the excess will have to wait for the next flight. I was hoping PR would open regular service SZX mainly for cargo and pax secondary.

BTW, is there any news on the leased B777? I was hoping it would be leased soon so that the current 777s could get the much needed maintenance service.
Yes. Including CEB

That was 14 flights a week briefly with 112 operating 9am and 1pm circa 2018, with 3 of these coming from CEB. Lately, they went to 16x last year. Could have been 21fpw had they still had plenty of planes. You are correct to say that there are only two departures from MNL, but technically speaking they are four different flights when arriving at LAX, because they arrive at different times of the day. I think it has more to do with flight consistency arriving at a particular time.

PAL has the habit of doing this. Look at PVG and XMN. CGK, and KUL looks like PVG before. You could say it is just a daily flight. But no, its a different flight entirely when flown at different time. Same flight number or not.  You can always have a different interpretation of it. I'm just following how the airport operator would look at it.

On the 77w front, one lease is expiring this year, while another one expires next year. PAL is planning to extend leases on these planes. How many years, we don't know yet.

seven13 wrote
During JJBs time, the B747 were used to fly to regional hops after coming in from a longhaul flight. HKG on PR300/306, the A340 used to do BKK as PR730, PVG gets the B747 too. When RSA took over, as the B744 were aging and maintenance was extremely costly, was it called fleet/route rationalization(?), the B744 were strictly doing longhaul ops only and the A330 took over the regional routes the B744 used to fly to. When SMC relinquished control, its operations remained the same. The B777s were strictly doing longhaul flights only. The triclass with occasional switch to biclass, were dispatched to HK, JP, KR, SG and TH.

Post pandemic, since there is a lack of A333, the B777 are substituting in when demand is high for a particular route. Just the other day, BKK was flown by the B777(730) and A350(736). I guess due to lack of aircraft, the B777 is temporarily being used for regional flights on certain days.
Aircraft fatigue. That is the name

frequent flight cycles put more strain in aircraft fuselage and parts requiring more maintenance.

The signs of fatigue are more pronounced in aging aircraft (B747) and become more dangerous as the aircraft is continually exposed to atmospheric pressure. Flight cycles literally mean take-off and landing. Because of this, after a certain number of flight cycles an aircraft should be retired due to safety issue. This regulation is meant to prevent catastrophic failure in the air. In order to reduce this cycle PAL had to limit short haul flight unless necessary. The B747 was I think 18 years old then when SMC assumes.

Accumulating fatigue damage is an inevitable reality of flying metal airframes even carbon frames. Atmospheric pressure, G-loads, turbulence and other factors create the perfect environment for damaging stress.
Making Sense
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

JNC03
I think they will extend the 77W lease until A35K starts to arrive
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

Arianespace
Administrator
I've heard their propose delivery schedule is somewhere between 2027-28. That will be 5-6 years from now. But until the orders are made and confirmed, it will just be speculations. Even confirmed orders with confirmed delivery dates are delayed further like the 21N. So you can never tell until they are actually delivered.
Making Sense
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer
This post was updated on .
Considering the fairly long time frame I wonder if those J-seats on PAL older B77W will have to soldier on for a few more years and how long can those Recaro seats if their still functioning at a minimum ordering the same seats as those featured on 7778-onwards would be enough as a stop gap though I'm unsure if Safran (formerly Zodiac) still makes those seat model? From a previous post I've heard only the IFE system is planned to be upgraded while so far no plans are in place to replace those old seats or add PECY Cabin in the short term. I know its a waste of money if PAL decided to refurbished those aircraft but 2027-2028 is 4-5 years and the transpac market it highly competitive so spending a few million will come along way help improve PAL image at a minimum should be in-line with the newer B77W.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

JNC03
In reply to this post by JNC03
PAL is studying the revival of flights to Europe in a bid to rebuild international routes that were affected by pandemic. "We're still in the process of gathering data, and we're also partnering with the Department of Tourism to look at which is the best route to fly to Europe," PAL President and Chief Executive Officer Stanley Ng said.

Ng said PAL's return to Europe would depend on the delivery of aircraft as the flag carrier had returned several to lessors due to the pandemic.

https://www.manilatimes.net/2023/03/30/business/top-business/pal-eyes-restoration-of-flights-to-europe/1884945
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer

Considering it mentions studying indicates it will be sometime before it comes to fruition when B787-9, A350-900 & A350-1000 have now been delivered or return from LH.

LH seem to be leasing additional A350-900 former LATAM and SAA which are NTU from HNA Group
https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-leases-four-ex-latam-airbus-a350s/
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

Evodesire
In reply to this post by Arianespace
Happy then that PAL had 747 deposits that made them decide to go for the 77W over the A346.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

Solblanc
Evodesire wrote
Happy then that PAL had 747 deposits that made them decide to go for the 77W over the A346.
The A346 would’ve been more comfortable though from a passenger perspective. And it would’ve been delivered faster so it wouldn’t have been affected by the CAT2 fiasco.  The Boeing deposits could’ve gone towards the 787 to replace the original GE A330s.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

JNC03
In reply to this post by JNC03
Philippine Airlines (PAL) swung to an operating profit of $298 million in 2022, the first positive operating figure since 2019.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/pal-enjoys-profitable-2022-on-back-of-post-pandemic-boom/152708.article
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer
In reply to this post by Solblanc

Probably in different timeline PAL had both the A340-300 and A340-600 for its long-haul fleet and assuming the B787-9 isn't delayed and entered service it would likely had replace not only the A330-300. But also the A340-300 I wonder if PAL would still have acquired the A350XWB (Most likely the A350-1000),  as a replacement for the A340-600 and since most airlines retired thier during the pandemic would PAL had kept them a bit longer or will they reactivate them post-pandemic?

This of course are speculation which is fun to do. But also should still be grounded in reality.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

Evodesire
In reply to this post by Solblanc
Except long term wise, they may have a problem with fuel expense, especially now that fuel prices are high.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer
They probably would have withdraw them and replace them with the six A350-900 (instead of being sublease to LH). However I do imagine PAL would have brought them back either in 2022-2023 for capacity although the expense would have been higher due to the A346 four engines and operations. Alternatively they may bring the A340-300 instead to help fill the gap, although having a lower capacity over the A346 the A343 is less expensive to operate and can operate direct flight between MNL-LAX or SFO instead of the A330-300 with stops at ICN. This are hypothetical question assuming had PAL acquired the A346 instead of the B77W
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

frequentflier
If I rember correctly, Arianespace previously mentioned that despite having 4 engines, PAL was making money with those planes as long as they’re full. I just can’t find the previous post.
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

JNC03
In reply to this post by JNC03
Will PAL rebrand?

There is some speculation due to their change of design of pubmats uploaded on their official social media platforms

Old design(used before until their anniv event last month)


New one
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Re: A look at PAL Fleet Planning

XWB_flyer
Hard to say at this early time. But I do hope not! I prefer an updated livery with the full "Philippine Airlines" while keeping the current tail design.
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