Airlines in the Philippines

[romantic_guy08]

Happy happy 74th Anniversary to Asia's First... Philippine Airlines...

[Arianespace]

Actually, the first flight was on March 18, 1931. The route traveled was Manila and Iloilo. Sometimes, facts are made inaccurately distorted even by the airlines themselves. What a shame. If only they could have read further back.

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

Actually, the first flight was on March 18, 1931. The route traveled was Manila and Iloilo. Sometimes, facts are made inaccurately distorted even by the airlines themselves. What a shame. If only they could have read further back.

This was the flight operated by INEC before right?

[jetsetex]

This was the PATCO flight. But I think what they are celebrating is the incorporation of their identity as PAL. Though it isn't yet fully acknowledged they were rooted from said airline.

On Mar 16, 2015 8:17 AM, "romantic_guy08 [via Philippine Aviation Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Arianespace wrote

Actually, the first flight was on March 18, 1931. The route traveled was Manila and Iloilo. Sometimes, facts are made inaccurately distorted even by the airlines themselves. What a shame. If only they could have read further back.

This was the flight operated by INEC before right?

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[Arianespace]

Right. It was a PATCO flight. Even then they were not PAL at its incorporation in 1941. The name was amended later. Guess what their name was?

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

Right. It was a PATCO flight. Even then they were not PAL at its incorporation in 1941. The name was amended later. Guess what their name was?

Philippine Airways?

from the archives of the Filipinas Heritage Library...

http://www.filipinaslibrary.org.ph/filipiniana-library/filipiniana/70-features/247-pal-before-the-war

[chowpau]

Far Eastern Air Transport Inc (FEATI)?

[Arianespace]

romantic_guy08 wrote

Philippine Airways?

from the archives of the Filipinas Heritage Library...

http://www.filipinaslibrary.org.ph/filipiniana-library/filipiniana/70-features/247-pal-before-the-war

This is correct. The name was pattern from PAN AM Airways. Without the PATCO license PAL would have been another airline that just came and gone. Few realized that the two airline were merged together to form what was then known as Philippine Air Lines. See the difference?

Without PATCO, its infamous first flight on March 15 would not have been possible.

And did you also know that PAL has a Jewish lineage that even the State of Israel recognizes to this day?

[jetsetex]

I always wonder why they merged AIR LINES and made it to AIRLINES. My guess it was in 1966 with the new logo. But why?

That I want to know more of. Her Jewish lineage

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Arianespace [via Philippine Aviation Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

romantic_guy08 wrote

Philippine Airways?

from the archives of the Filipinas Heritage Library...

http://www.filipinaslibrary.org.ph/filipiniana-library/filipiniana/70-features/247-pal-before-the-war

This is correct. The name was pattern from PAN AM Airways. Without the PATCO license PAL would have been another airline that just came and gone. Few realized that the two airline were merged together to form what was then known as Philippine Air Lines. See the difference?

Without PATCO, its infamous first flight on March 15 would not have been possible.

And did you also know that PAL has a Jewish lineage that even the State of Israel recognizes to this day?

Making Sense

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[seven13]

has anyone heard the possibility of routing JFK via HNL? What are the chances it'll proceed? Apparently PR is considering to switch To HNL on the way to JFK. Eurest explained that it is more economical to fly via HNL because PR can utilize the A330. It can save PR around 3 metric tons of fuel compared to the A340 and also, CX has almost captured the YVRJFK market (unless supply is currently less than demand) with both carriers departing at the same time frame. With a one stop, PR offers nothing special compared to other Asian carriers offering a 1 stop flight from their home base to and from Manila. Can we infer that JJB is taking cues from RSA's plan before of MNL-HNl-MIA using the A330?

Another rumor I heard, CEBLAX. Even if it'll be seasonal, is there any high probability of starting it?

[Arianespace]

Very much unlikely. There was no such proposal to begin with. I am more inclined to believe that the proposed routing plan was direct flight following CX if the load factor to JFK improves in next couple of years. After all that was the original intent to begin with. We should know, a 77W can fly MNL-JFK with ease.

While HNL can serve as stopover for JFK, there is far better option to fly via ANC if the intent is flying the A330, and the latter has far better economic results.

Please take note that our bilaterals with the United States does not allow 6th and 7th freedom rights within the US which means, HNL and ANC is merely a technical stop just like what GUM is.

The RSA plan with MIA is via YVR but I am more certain that the next flight to the US would be ORD and not MIA if NYC grows. JFK was itself an RSA idea even if LT got all the credits of wanting to fly the big apple.

CEB is a big Metropolis but not enough passengers to justify a flight to the US. According to statistics most went to HKG via CX where they are dispersed to different North American cities, and some went to ICN for connections. Most reason cited for flying international airlines are offered fares.

Also, CEB suffers connection problems and higher fares with its limited hub to Visayas and Mindanao. Perhaps we all know that CEB connections are mostly run by ATR and Bombardier while ex-MNL is flown by Airbuses.

It may however work with a B787 but PAL doesn't have a fleet of those.

By the way, PAL flight to DXB isn't taking over GAP. The real story is GAP stops DXB and PAL flies DXB. Both are different as both have different entitlements. The "why" would probably surprised you if you can guess?

There plan now is to grow DXB 10 times weekly with codeshare deals with GAP. These deal effectively terminate any chance UAE will have taking PAL entitlements via code share.

[seven13]

I think it was just this recent months. Actually it caMe from my friend. The crew on her flight were discussing about it along with the flight deck crew and some management team. I think it was this recent that they were considering flying via HNL.

Why is that flying via ANC over HNL would be more economical untilizing the A330? Is it longer distance/longer at cruising altitude = less fuel burn? Yup, I guess most countries do not allow 6th and 7th freedom rights for foreign carriers. It's called cabotage right?

Would flying the A340 be too costly when opening CEBLAX even just for peak travel season? With a surplus of A321 maybe those airports that can handle A321 can easily be upgraded during the season to accommodate passenger volume. I don't know just my thoughts.

Hmmmm...GAP does not have the number of cabin crew to handdle/support its operations? PAL needs to fly the DXB entitlements or else will lose them eventually?

BTW, are there any chances that when the A330s are due for heavy checks, cabin reconfiguration will be done as well? Eliminating the monoclass and maintaining a bi class A330 fleet? And reconfigring of the galleys and increase seat width and pitch (2-4-2 layout just like the -302s?)

[Arianespace]

Personal experience wise, flight crews doesn't have a clue where the airline goes next or what route is gonna be axe. Guys from planning department should be the best source of information where they gonna fly new destinations because they are the ones evaluating the route and reading all the data. And they are also not found on the flight decks or socializing with flight and cabin crews. Management team perhaps but I once talked to a senior manager and a flight planner and both of them have different answers. Most of the time the latter has more accurate answers.

The answer to question number 2 is similar to why PAL travels Siberian airspace onwards to LHR instead of going the middle east. The difference happens to be more than 2000nm.

CEB-LAX would be costly if you cannot fill the plane. And based on earlier talks PAL can't even fill some of its flights to MNL, what more CEB. The thought is nice but truly tragic for them if they did.

As to DXB you got the answer figured. A321s are actually geared for Intra Asia. As you can see they are now starting a new route in China. Four more are gonna be online soon. Mind you, all their A321s are busy. So are the new ones coming.

And to the last paragraph, perhaps not at all. There are restrictions in the lease contract that even putting Wifi on it needs permission on the aircraft lessor. Lets just face the fact that the 2-4-2 era is gone. Even the new long haul plane is planned to be 3-3-3, but at least its wider than the current A330.

[seven13]

Speaking of that department, that's the department I would love to work for in an airline. Analyzing and studying the viability of a route. Planning which route to open next and which/what type of aircraft to utilize. Seems a fun and challenging department.

Got it. 2000nm is a big difference. Probably why the Taiwanese do stopovers in ANC before rather than using HNL.

Isn't the 3-3-3 layout the standard config? I was thinking of the A350. Checking the Airbus website, standard is 3 abreast while 3-4-3 config is high density. So if it's true then that's a relief. Compared to the B777, they chose the high density config (which most airlines are doing cabin reconfiguration to 3-4-3 layout in Y).

[Eurest]

I finally found this forum again, it's embarrassing to admit but when the company provided me the new thinkpad i had forgotten the url for this site. I've now bookmarked it on my home desktop

I thought the MNL-HNL-JFK rumors stemmed from this forum, so I was eager to check out what else was being discussed here.

Excited to see TK 84/85 starting soon, I'm guessing TK will use the TG lounge at T1?

[seven13]

I didn't notice your previous posts! Didn't know that you're already a member here! Nope, the HNL thing came from me. Was asking around if it was true or not.

PAL posted a 50M profit for Jan-Feb months, and the article posted in SSC mentioned Airbus' agreed to defer deliveries of the remaining orders until 2024 (which had previously been reported) and a reduction in the number of aircraft yet to be delivered from the previous orders. We know that the A333s have all been delivered and the remaining are the A321s. Was there a conversion of A321 orders for longhaul aircraft thus a reduction of pending aircraft deliveries?

[Arianespace]

Eurest wrote

Excited to see TK 84/85 starting soon, I'm guessing TK will use the TG lounge at T1?

You also got to see their commercials on TV. They are even heard on radio. Anyway Star Alliance doesn't have a lounge at NAIA. TK would be using Miascor like TG does.

seven13 wrote

 Was there a conversion of A321 orders for longhaul aircraft thus a reduction of pending aircraft deliveries?

There was none. The cancelled A330's were converted to A321's and now with longer delivery schedules from the last delivery of 2020 now extended to 2024.

[Solblanc]

Speaking of A321s, in the news, it's reported that PR bought two more A321s.

First LTG says that SMC bought too many planes, and now they're buying more?

Does this have anything to do with the returning of the monoclass A330s?

[Arianespace]

Another PR stunt from PAL.

They are already bought. What is there to buy?

I think the intention was to tell the world "look, we are buying new planes!", as if we don't already knew.

I would say, perhaps another ploy to wriggle out the monoclass A330 return to lessor issue. Clever.

I know of a broadsheet reporter who wanted to verify a news story on a blog and the answer they got is this news story.  

I told him its a rehash news. I would have been happy if it were the long haulers, but I guess they still keep it in wraps.

[seven13]

Speaking of the blog post, when will the additional 77W come online? They are to be deployed to NA routes, would there be any possibilities to squeeze In AU routes?