Airlines in the Philippines

[Evodesire]

Farnborough is nearing. Is there anything we should all be excited and watch out for?

[RiverThames15]

With or without PR or 5J related news, we're excited to go again this year! :-)

http://www.farnborough.com/Public/

[romantic_guy08]

Today is the hearing for the 7 additional Canada entitlements...

Would anyone be able to give us updates on the result of that hearing and who gets those 7 entitlements?

[Evodesire]

Ariane: Their are discussion on the other forum about rumors of PAL getting 757s. If its true, I find it really pointless and such a stupid decision. But is it true in any way that they are getting 757s???

[Arianespace]

You don't get immediate award after the hearing but it was very clear which will it go to. Expect announcement from the airline soon. It is almost kissing the statue of liberty.

About PAL on the 757, not true at all. The rumor mill has been there since 2009 and guess what PAL got? The A321.

Of course they were considered by the airline then but when the orders came out everything was clear. Its got to be the A321. Mind you the A321 can reach Sydney and Melbourne on penalty, yet PAL did not even bother to deploy the A320 to Brisbane direct. Why? Because its more profitable to triangulate it. It can also perfectly fly to India direct but of course we know the reason why they are not in India anymore. Because even their smaller A320 cannot be filled. So how much more the bigger brother?

SYD and MEL and soon NZ only has one plane and that fleet requirement is likewise covered already by the A330.

What profit will it make to operate another sub-fleet? None.

[Evodesire]

Thanks! I did find it stupid for them to get 757s for Australia and New Zealand routes. They had been operating the Aussie routes profitably for such a long time using a mix of A330s, A340s, 777s, and A320s for BNE. So why the need to add another type of aircraft which will require money, certification and training. For me, they would be better off throwing the budget for 757s into their marketing department.

[chowpau]

One thing I know that not all PAL's A321 are ETOPS

The nose gear would determine if the aircraft is ETOPS or not:

NON-ETOPS
RP-C9909
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Philippine-Airlines/Airbus-A321-231/2461872/L/&sid=9d4d175418c822bcc1c95a36accd5ad9

RP-C9907
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Philippine-Airlines/Airbus-A321-231/2453941/L/&sid=9d4d175418c822bcc1c95a36accd5ad9

RP-C9906
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Philippine-Airlines/Airbus-A321-231/2383179/L/&sid=41e2ba61b359e0c2dbbdccf96dabb3ad

RP-C9902
http://planefinder.net/images/5983902:Photo:801595.jpg

ETOPS
RP-C9905
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Philippine-Airlines/Airbus-A321-231/2460864/L/&sid=9d4d175418c822bcc1c95a36accd5ad9

RP-C9901
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Philippine-Airlines/Airbus-A321-231/2456818/L/&sid=9d4d175418c822bcc1c95a36accd5ad9

RP-C9903
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Philippine-Airlines/Airbus-A321-231/2421454/L/&sid=9d4d175418c822bcc1c95a36accd5ad9

[Evodesire]

In this case, up to how far can these ETOPS A321s allowed to fly?

[chowpau]

Certified ETOPS for A32x is 120min away from an airport. Non-ETOPS for A32X is 60 minutes. In terms of distance how far it can fly up to the nearest airport, it would depends on the certified MTOW of each aircraft

[Arianespace]

How is ETOPS relevant in flights to Australia and India? None. Hawaii, maybe yes.

But if we are talking about flights to Auckland, via Darwin, now you are talking.

And by the way, talking about how far the A321 can fly from MNL fully packed with passengers and cargo, at most 3100nm more or less. IF you packed it like sardine can at 220 around 3000nm. Take a look at this for easy reference.



Or you can go to Airbus here

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a320family/a321/performance/

With 120 passengers, it can fly as far as 3500nm range and that almost extend to Tasmania, with load penalty of course. And it can fly empty at 3700nm on nominal range with only maximum gas and 5 passengers on board.

With the NEO as illustrated by Airbus above, it could probably add 10 more people or about 130-140 passengers and cargo.

Like I told you its not profitable to fly a 200 capacity aircraft that long unless passengers pay a higher premium fare which can equally be done by a A330 at a much lower CASM.

[Evodesire]

Though for ETOPS certified aircraft, their restrictions and regulations are heavier than non-ETOPS ones. Like I think one small glitch or like 1 piece of part from the aircraft missing, they ground it right away. I think their basis too is if it can fly on one engine only for a certain distance before landing, am I correct?

[chowpau]

Yup.

[Evodesire]

Taken from RealChinky in the other forum

"The 757 order is in fact true. Philippine Airlines is getting 5 757's from SHANGHAI AIRLINES.

LN 1044, 1045, 1046, 1049 and 1050

This means that Philippine Airlines will hold some history in its fleet, because LN 1050 is the last 757 ever built. These aircraft do have IFE as well. Rumors has it flying to NZ, India, and AUS."

I still do not understand why they are getting 757s for Australia and NZ when they have the aircraft built for them.

[Arianespace]

Isn't this the forum to go where anyone seeks to find out the truth and solicit some sensible answers?

If Melbourne and Sydney is the thing about that fabled Aircraft, it can perfectly be flown by the smaller sister of the A321, the A319 which can do both sectors at MTOW and PAL has both of them, yet its flown by a A340. WHY?

On the same manner, why does PAL fly to Brisbane via Darwin when A320 can perfectly fly the route straight?

Mind you these questions can be answered by a simple answer without making an elaborate hoax. And still if this rumor remain standing, then perhaps will wait when they finally wear PAL colors and fly in our face.

[Evodesire]

I agree with you. It seems like that 757 rumor has been even the talk of the town at PPSG. IMO, it just doesn't make sense that PAL still has to get a 757. They had always been operating the A330s and A340s for that route, so why the need to downgrade. I also had been hearing that India had been getting bad loads. 2 digits, lower than even 50 pax. So why shift to a gas guzzling 757.

[chowpau]

The australia routes, i think it will not be sydney and melbourne since or what i heard that they are doing good. For NZ, the plan is a stopover or a triangular route. For india, pal is planning to return. Based on its historical route, it was direct with A330 then via BKK then switch to A320/A319 until it stopped flying. Maybe theyre looking at the 757 where it is expensive for an A330 but insufficient for an a320. Something long-thin route without weight penalty.

On the other side of note, my dad said 3 nights ago PAL is making money for not flying to Saudi Arabia than flying to Saudi Arabia. He used to work with SV,BI and TW before as one GSA

[Arianespace]

I don't see any route where they can be flown exclusively that cannot be made by their new A321s and the upcoming A321NEO's or their lesser size sisters.

chowpau wrote

On the other side of note, my dad said 3 nights ago PAL is making money for not flying to Saudi Arabia than flying to Saudi Arabia. He used to work with SV,BI and TW before as one GSA

Interesting thought. I can stil recall vividly how Jaime Bautista complained against SVA undercutting them in Riyadh when they flew there before. I guess your dad has a point on that score. What could probably be Jimmy's thought and that of your Dad this time around considering that PAL flies cheaper now, and at a profit too?

And it reminded me about RSA's comment that PAL can actually compete with the middle east big three. From the airline preliminary results in April this early, I think he was right.

[Evodesire]

How is the present load factor of PAL's RUH and DMM routes? Also, how is 2P doing against 5J in its DXB route? Heard that 2P is doing better.

[chowpau]

The explanation my dad told me that night, he said it is because Saudia or the Saudi government is paying PAL premium for them not to fly to Saudi Arabia. He said they're paying USD $60 per passenger to PAL.

[Evodesire]

Thats interesting. Just so that their own carrier's market share do not drop, they pay airlines something like a "just compensation" for them not to pick up passengers.