Airlines in the Philippines

[Evodesire]

Do you guys think that the number of mono-class A330s should be brought down to only maybe 5 or even 4, and those tri-class ones to be increased? Reason why maybe they are under utilized. Tarmac queens =  higher costs.

[Evodesire]

Back to the 757 rumors:

"Hi all,

Philippine Airlines have applied for daily direct slots from Manila - Perth effective 27OCT14 using Boeing 757 aircraft.

PR216 ETA 0450
PR217 ETD 0550."

I hope they are wrong.

[airboy007]

Evodshare, you are right. I have seen training schedule lined up for 757 for the crew this August. They are slated to fly to Australia and India.

[romantic_guy08]

seven13 wrote

Guys, got some inside info that on 9JUL there will be an event regarding EY and PR tie-up. Did anybody here anything similar to this? With the details, I have yet to ask. :D

Hindi kaya ito?

Philippine Airlines Says Foreign Carrier to Take a Stake
 
By TREFOR MOSS And CRIS LARANO CONNECT
July 7, 2014 5:28 a.m. ET
MANILA—The president of Philippine Airlines Inc. says a foreign airline is poised to acquire a stake in the Philippine flag carrier, as majority-owner LT Group continues its exit from aviation.

Philippine Airlines President and Chief Operating Officer Ramon Ang declined to identify the foreign airline or say whether it would buy all or part of LT Group's 51% share. Mr. Ang, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, said the deal would be completed by the end of the year.

"A foreign company is about to come in and buy a stake," Mr. Ang said.

Mr. Ang is also president of conglomerate San Miguel Corp. SMC.PH +0.06%  , which owns 49% of Philippine Airlines. LT Group didn't respond to requests for comment.

[Evodesire]

I feel so sorry for PAL. Why the need to get 757s as interim to the A321NEOs? Why can't they wait for the NEOs to arrive instead of getting interim 757s, spending on training the pilots and crew, and flying those guzzlers. And what if India and Perth are unsuccessful? Where will they fly those 757s?

[crusher.wake]

we dont know, maybe they will venture to a newer market. Kazakhstan maybe? or eastern siberian cities like Khabarovsk? they are now contributing more tourists in the ph. but i think ASA's are still needed for these routes to become reality.

[seven13]

Evodesire wrote

I feel so sorry for PAL. Why the need to get 757s as interim to the A321NEOs? Why can't they wait for the NEOs to arrive instead of getting interim 757s, spending on training the pilots and crew, and flying those guzzlers. And what if India and Perth are unsuccessful? Where will they fly those 757s?

It's like saying why get the old A340 as interim to future longhaul fleet?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your view. Me think that RSA want to open new AUS routes to develop and strengthen its foothold on AUS-MNL. It's building up its brand in AUS. Why would you wait until A321NEO if you have alternative to start it early. It might be too late if it builds its brand after the A321NEOs join the fleet.

Re: 757 economics, there should be a way to make the route profitable even if it uses a less fuel efficient aircraft. Quoting from what arianespace had mentioned, some A340s are planned/may be deployed to DOH. There should be an economics behind why they'll designate a "gas guzzler" A340 to ME where the target market is OFW.

Just my 2 cent.

[Evodesire]

Yet as what Arianespace has mentioned, what profit will those 757s bring? Also, why hasn't C8762 flown yet? And where do they plan to deploy those other mono-class A330s when those A340s will be flying ME.

As I had mentioned before, I do understand the need for more A340s. PAL is lacking 777s to service its long haul network, flights beyond 13 hours. The jumbos have to go, and so do some of the original 90s era A340s.

Some may argue that the 757 can fly longer range carrying a few passengers plus US carriers still fly them. But I see PAL as a different case as they are trying to manage costs further. They went to hybrid, they stripped out seat-back IFEs to make the planes lighter and to save on expenses, they went wireless IFE, etc. Then suddenly, the lease or purchase of interim 757s, a plane that had never flown with the airline, hence a new frame.

Yes PAL did study the 757s. And yes, they did study the purchase of 8 mono-class A330s and then all of a sudden, according to a forumer here, they are under utilized and even one had never flown yet.

I just don't still understand that 757 purchase. Arianespace would know, I am expecting an analysis from him soon. But based on his last post about it, he does think that the 757 purchase seems a bit crazy.

[seven13]

Evodesire wrote

Yet as what Arianespace has mentioned, what profit will those 757s bring? Also, why hasn't C8762 flown yet? And where do they plan to deploy those other mono-class A330s when those A340s will be flying ME.

As I had mentioned before, I do understand the need for more A340s. PAL is lacking 777s to service its long haul network, flights beyond 13 hours. The jumbos have to go, and so do some of the original 90s era A340s.

Some may argue that the 757 can fly longer range carrying a few passengers plus US carriers still fly them. But I see PAL as a different case as they are trying to manage costs further. They went to hybrid, they stripped out seat-back IFEs to make the planes lighter and to save on expenses, they went wireless IFE, etc. Then suddenly, the lease or purchase of interim 757s, a plane that had never flown with the airline, hence a new frame.

Yes PAL did study the 757s. And yes, they did study the purchase of 8 mono-class A330s and then all of a sudden, according to a forumer here, they are under utilized and even one had never flown yet.

I just don't still understand that 757 purchase. Arianespace would know, I am expecting an analysis from him soon. But based on his last post about it, he does think that the 757 purchase seems a bit crazy.

Who knows why 62 hasn't flown yet. Maybe and LTP forumer could shed some light. Probably still installing the WiFE stuff, my hunch.

There's an alternative. They can save up money using the alternatives (monoclass, WiFE etc. etc.) to be able to use it in other plans. I'm not defending PR. I, for one, will admit that I was disappointed with the configuration of the A330 and A321. For me it's like, I'd rather not go out on weekends just to be able to save up enough money to be able to let's say buy a new cellphone. Where in not going out is the alternative and buying a new cellphone is the "plan" where I'll use my saved-up money.

I know the comparison may sound off but that's how I see it.

757 may sound crazy but there might be some deal behind it like a longhauler from Boeing where the 757 is part of the deal. When PR held an retiring event for the B747, Boeing officials were said to be present. When PR made a product update in the US, Boeing officials were also present. This additional fleet type were already mentioned by clarkent (PEx) some 8 months ago.

[Airboy007]

Well one this that was confirmed was that these planes are going to be from china southern. Theyre in a comfortable 175 config with IFE. So i guess thats good news for the pax. In terms os ASA for Perth and India pal has un utilized seats because of the termination of PER and DEL before. India will mot be DEL this time around though

[Evodesire]

seven13 wrote

 

There's an alternative. They can save up money using the alternatives (monoclass, WiFE etc. etc.) to be able to use it in other plans. I'm not defending PR. I, for one, will admit that I was disappointed with the configuration of the A330 and A321. For me it's like, I'd rather not go out on weekends just to be able to save up enough money to be able to let's say buy a new cellphone. Where in not going out is the alternative and buying a new cellphone is the "plan" where I'll use my saved-up money.

I was disappointed about the interiors of the A321s and A330s but I just had to accept the fact that PAL needs to manage its costs/spendings in order to make profit. Then all of a sudden, they spend on a used interim aircraft which has never been part of the PAL family (unlike the interim A340s) just to service a few routes which we are not even sure if it will make money. And basing it on Arianespace's posts, he maybe thought it was too unbelievable to be true.

Well maybe its part of a deal, like Boeing may have said "the wait time for our 787s is like 4 to 5 years down the road, but we can first lease you some used 757s for a small amount of money while waiting". That is something I would at least understand better. But if they are to lease them independently from any Boeing deal, then really, it think it was really useless for PAL to strip down the new Airbus jets and then all of a sudden, spend on a new type of used airframe for interim purposes when managing their costs is all but an important thing to them.

[romantic_guy08]

Evodesire wrote

seven13 wrote

 

There's an alternative. They can save up money using the alternatives (monoclass, WiFE etc. etc.) to be able to use it in other plans. I'm not defending PR. I, for one, will admit that I was disappointed with the configuration of the A330 and A321. For me it's like, I'd rather not go out on weekends just to be able to save up enough money to be able to let's say buy a new cellphone. Where in not going out is the alternative and buying a new cellphone is the "plan" where I'll use my saved-up money.

I was disappointed about the interiors of the A321s and A330s but I just had to accept the fact that PAL needs to manage its costs/spendings in order to make profit. Then all of a sudden, they spend on a used interim aircraft which has never been part of the PAL family (unlike the interim A340s) just to service a few routes which we are not even sure if it will make money. And basing it on Arianespace's posts, he maybe thought it was too unbelievable to be true.

Well maybe its part of a deal, like Boeing may have said "the wait time for our 787s is like 4 to 5 years down the road, but we can first lease you some used 757s for a small amount of money while waiting". That is something I would at least understand better. But if they are to lease them independently from any Boeing deal, then really, it think it was really useless for PAL to strip down the new Airbus jets and then all of a sudden, spend on a new type of used airframe for interim purposes when managing their costs is all but an important thing to them.

I think PR got these 757s for peanuts and maybe Boeing even paying for the crew training and certification...

Me thinks that 757 deal is part of bigger deal with Boeing...

Regardless, I also think that PR is taking advantage of the availability of the aircraft to develop the non-stop route to BNE and even PER effectively utilizing allocations and blocking of 5J. Remember that CAB is utilizing a use it or leave it approach in allocating entitlements. And routing flights via DRW doesn't count against the entitlements, so PR cannot wait for 2-3 more years for the NEOs to serve BNE non-stop and with the A333 to big, while the A321s doesn't have the cargo capacity plus might suffer weight penalties....

Btw, Clarkent just confirmed the B752s over in PEx...

[Evodesire]

I read it too! So its confirmed. Well good luck to them. Unless its part of a bigger deal with Boeing, I still do not understand their move. One thing I do see. They are just too threatened by Cebu Pacific. BTW, how old are those 757s of Shanghai Airlines?

[romantic_guy08]

Evodesire wrote

I read it too! So its confirmed. Well good luck to them. Unless its part of a bigger deal with Boeing, I still do not understand their move. One thing I do see. They are just too threatened by Cebu Pacific. BTW, how old are those 757s of Shanghai Airlines?

I think these are the 757s from

L/N 1050 - April 2005 (last production 757)
L/N 1049 - March 2005
L/N 1046 - July 2004
L/N 1045 - June 2004
L/N 1044 - May 2004

[Evodesire]

Has PAL also been taking delivery of A321s? Seems like they are having more A330s delivered than A321s. And don't you think they have too much mono-class A330s? Shouldn't they have more of the bi-class types?

Whats going on with them? Then suddenly, 757s... It seems like they have such an inconsistent product. At least they had something consistent during the time of JJB. Only time they messed up was a fuel hedging move that caused them huge losses. How is PAL's finances nowadays?

[seven13]

Evodesire wrote

Has PAL also been taking delivery of A321s? Seems like they are having more A330s delivered than A321s. And don't you think they have too much mono-class A330s? Shouldn't they have more of the bi-class types?

Whats going on with them? Then suddenly, 757s... It seems like they have such an inconsistent product. At least they had something consistent during the time of JJB. Only time they messed up was a fuel hedging move that caused them huge losses. How is PAL's finances nowadays?

Total of 7 A321s so far. 9901-3/5-7/9. A330 monoclass, 6 8781/2/4/5/6/9 (8780/3 I guess are with 2P already)

8762, btw, flew today as PR432 and tomorrow as PR431

[Evodesire]

So 8 A330s, 6 mono-class and 2 biclass? When will the next A321 and 330 delivery be?

[chowpau]

the info I have:

A321 RP-C9910 msn 6201 (last A321ceo for PAL) is underway for testing. maybe around late aug to sept is the delivery flight.

A330 (no date when but is already listed)

RP-C8763 MSN 1546
RP-C8764 MSN 1553
RP-C8765 MSN 1559
RP-C8766 MSN 1566
RP-C8771 MSN 1568

[romantic_guy08]

Evodesire wrote

So 8 A330s, 6 mono-class and 2 biclass? When will the next A321 and 330 delivery be?

This link is useful: http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Philippine-Airlines

and you can use this site to track the movements of PAL's aircrafts: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/philippine-airlines-pal/

BTW, I think 3 of the A319s have either been stored or returned to their lessors or transferred to other airlines...

[chowpau]

I heard the A319s will go to Vietjet