Airlines in the Philippines

[Evodesire]

Last 321CEO of PAL? But didn't they order for 34 of them and 10 + 8 NEOs? Or did they convert some to NEOs already?

[romantic_guy08]

and this means?

[romantic_guy08]

Landmark agreement between Etihad and Philippine Airlines

 Jul 09, 2014
Etihad Airways and Philippine Airlines (PAL) today announced a strategic partnership agreement that marks a new era of cooperation between the flag carriers.

The agreement covers codeshare flights, loyalty programs, airport lounges, joint sales and marketing programs, a Philippines domestic air pass, cargo, and the coordination of airport operations to provide a better guest experience at their Abu Dhabi and Manila hubs.

Etihad Airways’ President and Chief Executive Officer James Hogan said the broad scope of the commercial agreement reflected the strength of the relationship between the airlines and the close ties between the United Arab Emirates and the Philippines.

“This new partnership builds on the success of our original codeshare agreement and reflects the mutual respect, trust and goodwill that have built up over time – not only between the airlines but also between our governments.

“What is particularly significant about the new commercial arrangements is that our millions of customers are the winners. From a greater choice of passenger and freight codeshare destinations, to reciprocal loyalty program benefits, and more efficient terminal operations – this is a truly customer-centric proposition.”

PAL President and Chief Operating Officer Ramon S. Ang said: “This new agreement is one of the ways by which PAL hopes to further build its global network. By harmonising our products, we get to offer our passengers much wider and better travel options all over the world while boosting economic activity for both our countries through trade and tourism.”

Initially, the airline partners will place their respective ‘PR’ and ‘EY’ codes on each other’s Manila-Abu Dhabi flights to operate a combined total of 19 weekly flights between the two capitals. Etihad Airways will also place its ‘EY’ code on Philippine Airlines flights from Manila to 20 destinations throughout the Philippines in the first phase, increasing to 28 during 2014.

Members of Philippine Airlines Mabuhay Miles Frequent Flyer Program and Etihad Airways Etihad Guest will enjoy reciprocal loyalty program benefits including miles earn and redemption, priority check-in and boarding, baggage handling and lounge access across both networks.

During September and October, double miles will be awarded to Etihad Guest members travelling on any Philippine Airlines flight and to Philippine Airlines Mabuhay Miles members travelling on Etihad Airways flights.

The agreement also extends the use of Etihad Airways premium lounges in Abu Dhabi and London Heathrow to Philippine Airlines Business Class guests and Mabuhay Miles Million Miler, Premier Elite and Elite members when traveling on Philippine Airlines’ Manila-Abu Dhabi and Manila-London Heathrow flights. This comes into effect from 1 August for the Abu Dhabi lounges and 1 November for London Heathrow.

On the cargo front, the airlines have signed a letter of intent for an extensive capacity agreement based on the bellyhold of all passenger services between Abu Dhabi and Manila, as well as connecting airfreight into Africa, Australia, the Middle East and South East Asia. The airlines will work on the joint development of value-added cargo products such as priority and pharmaceuticals across their combined networks.

They are also developing a joint air pass scheme which will enable overseas visitors to purchase an international flight to Manila and up to three additional sectors on Philippine Airlines’ domestic network. This will enable travellers to visit more of the Philippines and provide a significant boost to the local tourism industry. The air pass is expected to go on sale by 1 September 2014.

Etihad Airways operates two flights daily between Abu Dhabi and Manila using a Boeing 777-300 aircraft with 28 seats in Business Class and 384 in Economy Class.

PAL’s five weekly flights utilise its new Airbus A330-300 aircraft which features a modern, two-class cabin configured into Economy (with a separate premium economy cabin) and an all-new, state-of-the-art Business Class. The PAL A330 carries 368 passengers: 323 in Economy; 27 in a spacious Premium Economy; and 18 in Business Class.

Both airlines have Business Class seats that convert to full-flat beds and offer full service in Economy Class.

The comprehensive new commercial agreement follows the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding between the airlines in Abu Dhabi on 28 April 2014.

[Evodesire]

Is this like the QF-EK deal? Or do you think EY has vested interest on acquiring a minor portion of PAL?

[Arianespace]

Whoah. Information overload.

Evodesire wrote

I feel so sorry for PAL. Why the need to get 757s as interim to the A321NEOs? Why can't they wait for the NEOs to arrive instead of getting interim 757s, spending on training the pilots and crew, and flying those guzzlers. And what if India and Perth are unsuccessful? Where will they fly those 757s?

Now about that, its hard to believe but it now appears to be true. Thanks but no thanks to Cebu Pacific.

Why the need for the interim? It seems that 5J is bent on securing unused slots of PR to Oz as it desires daily ops to SYD. What they currently have now is five. People at CAB were saying that Aussies is not bent on seating down with them if they will not use all the seat entitlements.

Thing is, PAL has plenty of available unused seats, and the only way for non-forfeiture is fly otherwise 5J will use it.

That is something PR is not about to give up. Ideas have to be flown otherwise they lose the ability to fly.

The problem with the ASA is that they were measured againts widebodies, like a daily schedule of the Airbus A330 between MEL and SYD.  Current demand perfectly fits with the A340 on some days with A330 services deemed too large to fly down south at the moment. If it fills the A340 then its a good thing. I did say that PR's OZ operation is one of its major sources of revenue after North America and Japan.

Well, PR has played with B747 and B777 before because they can play with the market during peak season having unused seats at their disposal. Now, play is over as they will have a hard time upgauging their equipment when the surge begins because they will now be apportioned to other routes. Thanks again to 5J.

If 5J was able to make DXB worked, I don't know how they can't do that in SYD.

That is probably good thing for us. I don't know about the airline.  

[Arianespace]

romantic_guy08 wrote

Landmark agreement between Etihad and Philippine Airlines

There is more to this than meets the eye.

Evodesire wrote

Is this like the QF-EK deal? Or do you think EY has vested interest on acquiring a minor portion of PAL?

That is a very good question.

Eurest at the other forum has a good account of this. He snoops good!

[Evodesire]

Arianespace wrote

Now about that, its hard to believe but it now appears to be true. Thanks but no thanks to Cebu Pacific.

Why the need for the interim? It seems that 5J is bent on securing unused slots of PR to Oz as it desires daily ops to SYD. What they currently have now is five. People at CAB were saying that Aussies is not bent on seating down with them if they will not use all the seat entitlements.

Thing is, PAL has plenty of available unused seats, and the only way for non-forfeiture is fly otherwise 5J will use it.

That is something PR is not about to give up. Ideas have to be flown otherwise they lose the ability to fly.

The problem with the ASA is that they were measured againts widebodies, like a daily schedule of the Airbus A330 between MEL and SYD.  Current demand perfectly fits with the A340 on some days with A330 services deemed too large to fly down south at the moment. If it fills the A340 then its a good thing. I did say that PR's OZ operation is one of its major sources of revenue after North America and Japan.

Well, PR has played with B747 and B777 before because they can play with the market during peak season having unused seats at their disposal. Now, play is over as they will have a hard time upgauging their equipment when the surge begins because they will now be apportioned to other routes. Thanks again to 5J.

If 5J was able to make DXB worked, I don't know how they can't do that in SYD.

That is probably good thing for us. I don't know about the airline.

Thanks for making things more clear. Now the move for 757s is more understandable. I guess it would only be the A321NEO that can fly to Perth, Brisbane non-stop and they need the 757s to cover things first as not to make things go to 5J.

[airboy007]

PAL has secured rights to fly over Russia. I got this information from the memo for the cabin crew I came across with, revising the current 3 full meal service for LHR flights to the standard 2 meals with in-between inflight refreshments just like flights to North America. So the current 14-16 hours flight will now be 11-13hours. Finally! LHR now just got closer to MNL (Kinda)!

[airboy007]

and with the clearing of flyover rights in Russia, the website now displays the A340-300 Ex-IBe to be doing the rotation in the MNL-LHR-MNL sector. So I guess I will only be seeing the 777s on US flights since they have also been removed from the Canadian stations. The A340s are generally more generous in personal space anyway, especially for the Y class. But start saying goodbye to WiFi on board. :(

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

Now about that, its hard to believe but it now appears to be true. Thanks but no thanks to Cebu Pacific.

Why the need for the interim? It seems that 5J is bent on securing unused slots of PR to Oz as it desires daily ops to SYD. What they currently have now is five. People at CAB were saying that Aussies is not bent on seating down with them if they will not use all the seat entitlements.

Thing is, PAL has plenty of available unused seats, and the only way for non-forfeiture is fly otherwise 5J will use it.

That is something PR is not about to give up. Ideas have to be flown otherwise they lose the ability to fly.

The problem with the ASA is that they were measured againts widebodies, like a daily schedule of the Airbus A330 between MEL and SYD.  Current demand perfectly fits with the A340 on some days with A330 services deemed too large to fly down south at the moment. If it fills the A340 then its a good thing. I did say that PR's OZ operation is one of its major sources of revenue after North America and Japan.

Well, PR has played with B747 and B777 before because they can play with the market during peak season having unused seats at their disposal. Now, play is over as they will have a hard time upgauging their equipment when the surge begins because they will now be apportioned to other routes. Thanks again to 5J.

If 5J was able to make DXB worked, I don't know how they can't do that in SYD.

That is probably good thing for us. I don't know about the airline.

So my hunch / analysis seems to be correct that it was all about entitlements and PR had to use them immediately.

romantic_guy08 wrote

I think PR got these 757s for peanuts and maybe Boeing even paying for the crew training and certification...

Me thinks that 757 deal is part of bigger deal with Boeing...

Regardless, I also think that PR is taking advantage of the availability of the aircraft to develop the non-stop route to BNE and even PER effectively utilizing allocations and blocking of 5J. Remember that CAB is utilizing a use it or leave it approach in allocating entitlements. And routing flights via DRW doesn't count against the entitlements, so PR cannot wait for 2-3 more years for the NEOs to serve BNE non-stop and with the A333 to big, while the A321s doesn't have the cargo capacity plus might suffer weight penalties....


Btw, Clarkent just confirmed the B752s over in PEx...

How are their loads to SYD, MEL and DRW/BNE anyway? I heard that BNE has been doing pretty good. My fiance took the flights last year and she said it was full both ways...

PER was dropped I heard was because most of the seats were taken by DRW-bound pax... don't know how true that is though...

[romantic_guy08]

airboy007 wrote

and with the clearing of flyover rights in Russia, the website now displays the A340-300 Ex-IBe to be doing the rotation in the MNL-LHR-MNL sector. So I guess I will only be seeing the 777s on US flights since they have also been removed from the Canadian stations. The A340s are generally more generous in personal space anyway, especially for the Y class. But start saying goodbye to WiFi on board. :(

With PR pulling out the B77W from LHR, can we expect non-stop to JFK/EWR before the year ends?

[Arianespace]

You were correct indeed.

Personally, I still doesn't get the logic of the B757 economic wise, unless there are some trade-offs with Boeing like what you said.

They could easily use their current A321 for the same route with Darwin stop-over. But I guess, the refueling stop is more expensive than operating the 757.

In fairness, the plane can actually fly to as far as SYD and MEL. I however very much doubt about the NEO's capability to match that far though although some suggests it would.

IMHO the best equipment for the route is still the A330 and I reckon 5J will make a killing to this otherwise very lucrative Aussie routes.

[Arianespace]

PR is applying both ORD and NYC. If 777 is removed from LHR then we could assume when they will be heading next particularly about the recent opening of the Siberian Airspace.

Although in fairness, LHR got a better load nowadays. So downgrade is basically questionable proposition. I suspect the equipment downgrade might lead to two more flights opening for them. They are increasing capacity yet downgraded equipment to A340.

By the way, the Iberian variant were likewise installed with Onair and plenty of Ipad's. So this might be their IFE's in exchange for backseat monitors. There should be no worries there to LHR.

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

You were correct indeed.

Personally, I still doesn't get the logic of the B757 economic wise, unless there are some trade-offs with Boeing like what you said.

They could easily use their current A321 for the same route with Darwin stop-over. But I guess, the refueling stop is more expensive than operating the 757.

In fairness, the plane can actually fly to as far as SYD and MEL. I however very much doubt about the NEO's capability to match that far though although some suggests it would.

IMHO the best equipment for the route is still the A330 and I reckon 5J will make a killing to this otherwise very lucrative Aussie routes.

from what I gathered, for BNE, with the DRW stop, this wouldn't count towards the entitlements since DRW is an open skies airport... PR had to fly direct to BNE so that it counts against the PR entitlements to Australia... or maybe also since they won't be able to make cargo with the A321 vs the 757...

Not sure what numbers they ave but it might be positive... the 757 works for certain missions and can be profitable compared to newer aircraft... same with the A343 vs the 77W where the 77W burns 1000kg more fuel in certain missions compared to the A343...

[airboy007]

The LHR loads are pretty good for the MNL-LHR sector, however, it has always been very light (150-200pax) for the LHR-MNL leg so I guess to some extent, the downgrade makes sense.

In terms of the A340 Ex Ibe, I am quite positive they do not have the OnAir installed yet, nor are there any plans of OnAir being installed. I flew an RP-C3437 to MEL last month and it did not have the OnAir. The MCL seats have AVOD though, albeit the selection being pretty limited.

[seven13]

Finally, PR is able to route LHR via the Russian airspace.
Would anybody know what terms did the Russian Government/Aeroflot asked to grant PR passing through their airspace? In cases like this, is it exclusive to PR or can other PH carrier use the routing if they decide to fly the Siberian airspace?

[dashalvin]

Is it possible for PAL to enter a code-share deal or a mini alliance with British Airways for London flights like that of Etihad deal?

[Evodesire]

Do you guys think PAL may consider this too:

http://www.airbus.com/farnborough2014/article/news_10710-airbus-launches-the-a330neo 

[Arianespace]

romantic_guy08 wrote

from what I gathered, for BNE, with the DRW stop, this wouldn't count towards the entitlements since DRW is an open skies airport... PR had to fly direct to BNE so that it counts against the PR entitlements to Australia... or maybe also since they won't be able to make cargo with the A321 vs the 757...

Not sure what numbers they ave but it might be positive... the 757 works for certain missions and can be profitable compared to newer aircraft... same with the A343 vs the 77W where the 77W burns 1000kg more fuel in certain missions compared to the A343...

BNE flight will still be counted in the bilaterals if the DRW is merely a technical stop (i.e. refueling). I'm more inclined to believe that is has more to do with the cargo.

airboy007 wrote

The LHR loads are pretty good for the MNL-LHR sector, however, it has always been very light (150-200pax) for the LHR-MNL leg so I guess to some extent, the downgrade makes sense.

In terms of the A340 Ex Ibe, I am quite positive they do not have the OnAir installed yet, nor are there any plans of OnAir being installed. I flew an RP-C3437 to MEL last month and it did not have the OnAir. The MCL seats have AVOD though, albeit the selection being pretty limited.

Couldn't agree more. It was pretty full last December due to the holiday rush.

I was made to understand that all long haul product would have Onair facility. One of that long haul equipment happens to be the A340. I'm pretty sure it was stated during the launch of the new business class on board the new A330. Unless of course it will only apply to new fleet. And that's where the ambiguity is. In which case its all gonna be exclusively Ipad then?

dashalvin wrote

Is it possible for PAL to enter a code-share deal or a mini alliance with British Airways for London flights like that of Etihad deal?

I would like to think that it would be most unlikely considering their product offers.

[Evodesire]

Is there anything to expect from PAL this Farnborough?