Airlines in the Philippines

[Solblanc]

Any chance they will delink YYZ from their YVR flights? Does the new ASA allow fifth from intermediate points like ICN or NRT?

[Arianespace]

I don't have any idea. The ASA however has no intermediate point so it should be flown direct.

[seven13]

Arianespace mentioned that YVR-YYZ is considered as one flight and is not using any of the fifth freedom rights. So maxing it out, 5X a week for JFK via onestop at YVR.

I'm now wondering how will PR shuffle its fleet. If it configured its newer bi class A330 to lesser capacity, it could fly directly to YVR and onto JFK for the meantime.

Did PR announce that it'll fly to JFK or will it stick to EWR?

[Arianespace]

PR did mentioned that they will be downsizing YYZ to A340 by October. Because the YYZ bound triple seven is expected to begin SFO. PAL recently applied for the new seven rights to Canada and assuming everything goes as planned we will have a double daily YVR for PAL with the other one extending to YYZ. Considering that there is still one triple seven that is available cycle wise and this I believe is going all the way to JFK, it is expected to have MNL arrival schedule in the afternoon or early evening for rotations to LAX or SFO and morning departure to YVR.

With this scenario you could no longer see anymore triple seven sitting idly on the ground all day. They will all be flying which again is better for PAL. Grounded plane does not earned airline revenue and this is where PAL will make a difference.

As with the new A330, please remember that PAL intends to fly to 8 destinations in the middle east. How many cities have they flown yet? Four. Be ready for another four this year.  

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

PR did mentioned that they will be downsizing YYZ to A340 by October. Because the YYZ bound triple seven is expected to begin SFO. PAL recently applied for the new seven rights to Canada and assuming everything goes as planned we will have a double daily YVR for PAL with the other one extending to YYZ. Considering that there is still one triple seven that is available cycle wise and this I believe is going all the way to JFK, it is expected to have MNL arrival schedule in the afternoon or early evening for rotations to LAX or SFO and morning departure to YVR.

With this scenario you could no longer see anymore triple seven sitting idly on the ground all day. They will all be flying which again is better for PAL. Grounded plane does not earned airline revenue and this is where PAL will make a difference.

As with the new A330, please remember that PAL intends to fly to 8 destinations in the middle east. How many cities have they flown yet? Four. Be ready for another four this year.

only problem is if one of them goes tech like what happened a few nights ago (?)... I believe both PR 102 and 112 were cancelled in the same or succeeding days...

BTW, has PR resolved the regulatory issues with Jeddah? and Doha?

[seven13]

Remaining 4 points will be JED, DOH, TLV(??), KWI(??) or BAH(??)

I guess, when one 777 goes to tech, they can easily pull out an A340 to fly LAX/SFO and substitute it to the newer A330s once the others are delivered.

Is YYZ still losing money for PR? I thought it already had picked up.

[Arianespace]

It surely would screw their system. Take note however that flights to LHR and JFK are not maxed out, meaning there will be a spare to some days, and none on others.

In the worst case scenario, there is still the A340 to fill in the gap every now and then.

As to the Middle East, 5J and PR just settled their differences in Saudi Arabia and we might see a new round of ASA with Qatar unless CEB settles for Clark or Cebu. If I am Lance I would fly from Cebu instead, and I'm pretty sure they have thought of that too!

CEB said they will start flying Saudi Arabia by October so we might also see PAL flying JED soon.

There are lots of question on the profitablility of flight to YYZ yet few managed to grasp the idea that this flight is triangular route as it stops at YVR on the way to YYZ.

Triangular routing is the most efficient way of serving two routes and developing the other economically as passengers from the other end which is YYZ ultimately has to go to MNL. While flight sector in Canada is losing, its continuing flight across the pacific is earning money. Bottom line is they earned more money doing so.

It can basically fly half empty from YYZ to YVR and vice versa and still be profitable if it picks up passenger in YVR. The easiest explanation on that aspect is best illustrated by an app game called "pocket planes" where you are task to grow your airline.

What is bothersome is if it fly half empty from YVR to MNL.

And flights to Vancouver is always almost full. And that convinces Canadian Transport Ministers to open more flights to the country as more often than not they are O&D traffic terminating in the Philippines, as compared to the request of the Gulf States where bulk of its intended passengers terminate elsewhere.

[seven13]

That's good to hear!
QR had reduced its MNL flights to daily from 14/week since last year and the code-share had been dropped.
I'm hoping for the best for the 2 carriers.

A lot of people are still skeptical about YYZ and keeps on mentioning that its a money losing route and are thinking, to an extent, wishing, that PR will drop it in favour of JFK. Such douche!! I've played pocket planes before. It was addicting!! :D

[jetsetex]

What is interesting update also for me is the daily GUM and HNL service come October 2014 schedule. Are there more to be announced this year?

[Sky Harbor]

seven13 wrote

That's good to hear!
QR had reduced its MNL flights to daily from 14/week since last year and the code-share had been dropped.
I'm hoping for the best for the 2 carriers.

I'm actually quite curious now as to whether or not the Qatari government finally acquiesced to PR's plans to open MNL-DOH.  As far as I know, they didn't do so out of wanting to protect QR, but well, I hope this change of heart helps PR's fortunes.

(OT: I'm fundraising to go to a conference in the U.S.: please check the link in my signature! :D)

[seven13]

I don't get it. Do you mean that the Qatari government didn't want/allow PR to fly its own metal to DOH? Ridiculous!

[Sky Harbor]

seven13 wrote

I don't get it. Do you mean that the Qatari government didn't want/allow PR to fly its own metal to DOH? Ridiculous!

Didn't allow: the Qatari government wouldn't grant PR landing rights.

[seven13]

Ridiculous! Seems like they are scared with the possible competition!

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

PAL was asking for it. Chances are it will be going to them.

Fifth Freedom rights can be done to any two points in Canada to anywhere in the United States, so technically they can split it at 3-2. But marketing wise, it would be best to have it in one destination only and I believe they have good chances of succeeding.

If PAL goes crazy, they could actually fly direct to JFK or ORD. The 77W can do that. But is it worth their pocket? I don't think so. Even CX stops at YVR onwards to JFK.

5J also applied for all the 7 additional entitlements to Canada, I know PR basically requested for the ASA negotiations for additional entitlements, but any chance 5J will also get some of these additional entitlements?

hearing is set on June 24.

[Evodesire]

Will the long-haul low-cost model even be profitable for routes like Canada or mainland US? Given 5J only has A330s to do the leg.

Or are they bagging the seats just for strategic purposes on order for PAL not to be able to increase its frequency in Canada?

[Arianespace]

On Qatar, it  would be the contrary. It is the Philippines that is restricting flights to Doha, and that is with respect to and from MNL only. Although I must admit that PAL has something to do with it.

As to 5J getting slots in Canada, very much doubt it.

If you remember the landing slots in Dubai, the very first airline to apply for new limited slots for MNL-DXB vv was Zest Air and the last one to apply was Air Philippines. Guess which one is flying now? And why?

And that was not the end of it. There was this Qatar and Saudi Arabia too.

Its the same reason for the Canada question.

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

On Qatar, it  would be the contrary. It is the Philippines that is restricting flights to Doha, and that is with respect to and from MNL only. Although I must admit that PAL has something to do with it.

As to 5J getting slots in Canada, very much doubt it.

If you remember the landing slots in Dubai, the very first airline to apply for new limited slots for MNL-DXB vv was Zest Air and the last one to apply was Air Philippines. Guess which one is flying now? And why?

And that was not the end of it. There was this Qatar and Saudi Arabia too.

Its the same reason for the Canada question.

So the Canada entitlements will go to the airline that will be able to use it soonest (or have the capability to use it ASAP)...

And since it basically was PR who requested for the negotiations for additional entitlements, it is but logical for them to get all...

[Evodesire]

EK just cancelled 70 A350 orders. Seems like the 777X is still the favorable large ultra-long range widebody. But anyhow, if PAL decides to use the slots EK left if they decide to order the A350, how soon would they be able to get them?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27791448

[Arianespace]

If I'm not mistaken Airbus went to the Philippines exactly for these slot. It was offered early this year. Remember the A330 cancellations? It has something to do with that. There was this unexpected turn of events which becomes beneficial to the airline that needed an otherwise earlier delivery. I read the propose delivery schedule somewhere but I can't locate it now. I was wondering where they intend to get the delivery schedule when productions are that tight already until this announcement came out. The puzzle is almost complete. Now the final part.

[Evodesire]

So PAL's deal on the 777X is supposedly on its final stages already, but what is the status for the A350? Will PAL be ordering both or will they stick with the 777s for its long haul needs?