Airlines In The Philippines III

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Why SMC held PAL for only 2 years?

Arianespace
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PAL 747 wrote
Can anyone explain why San Miguel only held PAL for 2 years (2012-2014)?
There is a public story and then there is an inside story.

On why San Miguel agreed to sell its PAL stake, Ang compared the situation to an unhappy marriage: “I’m happy to get out. Hindi na maayos ang samahan (Our relationship wasn’t good anymore), after one year, there was an attempt at a hostile takeover.”
https://www.philstar.com/lifestyle/sunday-life/2014/09/28/1373843/inside-stories-pal-divorce-ramon-ang-lucio-tan
First, the public story

Last Sept. 15, Tan, who is chairman of PAL, took back full control of the airline after completing the $1.3 billion to re-acquire the 49 percent interest that SMC bought in PAL in April 2012.

In April 2012, SMC’s wholly-owned subsidiary San Miguel Equity Investments Inc. (SMEII) acquired a 49 percent equity interest in Trustmark Holdings Corp. for $500 million. Trustmark owns 97.71 percent of PAL Holdings which in turn owns 84.67 percent of PAL through PR Holdings Inc.

With SMC on board, PAL embarked on a massive fleet renewal program involving the acquisition of 100 brand new aircraft. PAL entered into its first Purchase Agreement with Airbus for firm order of 44 A320 aircraft with options for 20 A321 NEO aircraft for delivery in fiscal years 2014 to 2020. It also signed a second Purchase Agreement for a firm order of 10 A330-300 and options for another 10 for delivery in fiscal years 2014 to 2016.

However, PAL and Airbus agreed to an amendment last March wherein the number of order of A330-300 aircraft would be reduced to 15 instead of 20. It dropped an option to acquire eight A321 NEO aircraft in the first purchase agreement but agreed to acquire eight A321 NEO. The airline has until 2017 to exercise its right to purchase four A321 NEO aircraft.

As of end-June, PAL has received a total of 17 aircraft from Airbus including 10 A330 and seven A321. The fleet of the PAL Group including PAL Express stood at 85 as of end-June.

With the Tan Group back at the helm, Bautista said PAL is looking at delaying the delivery of Airbus aircraft.

 “We have to discuss with Airbus. It can be deferred, but of course, that entails cost if you defer delivery,” Bautista earlier told reporters.
https://www.philstar.com/business/2014/10/16/1380557/ang-steps-down-pal-president

And lastly, the inside story, PAL offices, maintenance services, to catering, to banking, to part supplies, were taken away from LT group because they were expensive. SMC for example went to China for maintenance away from LTP.  That got the ire of his children who were mad when RSA did that. RSA was in all his rights. Even if SMC was minority, they held up management control. It was the proper thing to do. PAL ended on a positive note that year.

And this is where it became interesting,

Ang said he was willing to forego a long drawnout negotiation process with Tan because it was in danger of turning hostile, with frustration on both sides running high after a year of flip-flopping decisions by PAL’s former owner.
Remember the 10 options for the A330 which got reduced to 5, the 5 would have been the acquisition of either A359 or B789 for the LHR market. That would have put the LT group to a deeper financial hole, as it entails another billion dollars. In short, LT group refused that plan, even if it was previously agreed a year before. LT group was sabotaging SMC decision.

The aggressive expansion of flag carrier Philippine Airlines (PAL) has hit an unexpected speed bump as it puts on hold a potential multibillion-dollar order for new planes from American firm Boeing Co. due to safety issues.

This was due to recently discovered problems with the newly launched Boeing 787, which has been grounded for several weeks after battery overheating issues forced two of the so-called “Dreamliners” to make emergency landings last January.

PAL president Ramon S. Ang admitted that the 787 was one of several brand new planes the airline was planning to acquire. “We were looking at the Dreamliner and the other new Airbuses,” Ang said in a press briefing this week.

Because of the unforeseen issues, Ang said PAL would defer any decision on which new planes it would be buying.

The 787 is capable of carrying 250 to 260 passengers per flight or lower than the bigger 777’s 400-plus passenger capacity, depending on how seats are configured. The 787 is also capable of flying long-haul routes, making the plane ideal for long-distance, low-volume routes.
https://business.inquirer.net/179266/smc-lost-money-on-pal-investment
The reason cited was just a flimsy excuse but good enough justification to buy peace. As early as January 2013, RSA has decided to buy Boeing. Decision to buy Airbus A359 was made in 2014 as a compromise. Again to buy peace. SMC management decision. But that wasn't meant to be, as LT group reneged on that commitment, thus the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

flip-flopping decisions by PAL’s former owner.
Straight from RSA's mouth.
Making Sense
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

seven13
In reply to this post by Arianespace
Arianespace wrote
romantic_guy08 wrote
so these are 89, 86, 83 and?
80,82,86,89. These are the most comfortable A330s. 81 and 83 are set for densification.
81 and 82 are already modified tri-class. The current triclass are 80, 86, 83 and 89 but 83 is currently in CRK. 81 and 82 underwent densification in CRK if I’m not mistaken.
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

romantic_guy08
In reply to this post by Arianespace
Arianespace wrote
romantic_guy08 wrote
so these are 89, 86, 83 and?
80,82,86,89. These are the most comfortable A330s. 81 and 83 are set for densification.
wasn't 80 and 82 the first one to be reconfigured to the denser seating?
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

Arianespace
Administrator
In reply to this post by seven13
Personally I don't know which one is which. Those facts were just provided to me. Never been close to those planes. And as far as I know, only two frames were approved for densification after chapter 11. I could be wrong, or the person providing the data could also be wrong. Apologies if mistake has been made.
Making Sense
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

Arianespace
Administrator
In reply to this post by romantic_guy08
That was my previous impression. Apparently they were not made.
Making Sense
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

seven13
In reply to this post by romantic_guy08
It was 82 if I’m not mistaken then followed by 81. It was done in CRK for around 3mos? Those were the times PR had to cxl SYD/MEL on some days or the 777 subs for A333 to SYD. HNL will also be frequently delayed by 2-3hrs.

Good thing only 2 frames were approved for densification.
81 and 82 mainly flies to DXB or DOH, DMM and RUH gets them sometimes.  
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

Arianespace
Administrator
In reply to this post by seven13
Just notified the guy. Mali daw sinabi ko.

They have four variants of the A330. Not 2 variants. My impression was there was only two, the middle east liner with 3-3-3, and the OZ liner with 2-4-2. The only thing that was correct with my statement is one variant has 363 seats, while the other has 309 seats, which conforms to my earlier statement. So I said tama pa rin. Hindi daw.

Accordingly they have 4 variants
363 2 Y341-J18          66, 71
363 3 Y345-J18          63, 64, 65  
363 2 Y312-W33-J18   81, 83
309 4 Y267-W24-J18   86, 89, 80, 82
total 11

So I think that settles the issue.

seven13 wrote
Arianespace wrote
romantic_guy08 wrote
so these are 89, 86, 83 and?
80,82,86,89. These are the most comfortable A330s. 81 and 83 are set for densification.
81 and 82 are already modified tri-class. The current triclass are 80, 86, 83 and 89 but 83 is currently in CRK. 81 and 82 underwent densification in CRK if I’m not mistaken.
Making Sense
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PALxWamos

seven13
No biggie, Arianespace. Minute details to regular passengers, only avgeeks will be interested down to the last detail 😂

In a few months time, PR cabin crew will be flying Wamos’ A332. A set of PR cabin crew is currently undergoing EASA safety certification to be able to operate the Wamos aircraft. The reason I heard is SYD/MEL CSAT declined. It must be significant triggering PR to go this route. They call it damp lease. First time hearing it.

Flight deck will most likely be operated by Wamos crew.

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Re: PALxWamos

Arianespace
Administrator
Or could this be an indication of longer lease terms for Wamos to agree to damp leases? Damps are usually medium term while wets are short ones.
Making Sense
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Re: PALxWamos

seven13
I’m inclined to believe, yes. 4 triclass A330 is not enough to serve SYD/MEL + HNL unless they utilize a B777 regularly but SEA is coming online soon.
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Re: PALxWamos

Arianespace
Administrator
Also, damps requires re-registration of aircraft to PH registry according to PH civil aviation regulations. On the same note, they can also fly SEA. How convenient
Making Sense
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Re: PALxWamos

seven13
Arianespace wrote
Also, damps requires re-registration of aircraft to PH registry according to PH civil aviation regulations. On the same note, they can also fly SEA. How convenient
This is interesting. But having only 2 A332 is not enough to cover SYD/MEL + SEA. Intensive training has started since last week or just early this week.
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Re: PALxWamos

Arianespace
Administrator
Actually, we are not bound by EASA safety certification. We passed EASA audit already and there was no news that we are blacklisted again. That safety certification crap is already suspicious as it applies only for flight to the EU. Unless, there is more to it than meets the eye. LHR easily comes to my mind. And Wamos has 4 A322s. Easily can fly there, and SEA.

If that is the case, we don't have to worry about AKL too!
Making Sense
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Re: PALxWamos

seven13
Sorry, not 100% sure if it's EASA certification for cabin crew but it's a license for PAL crew to be able to operate the Wamos aircraft. License issued by EU regulatory.
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Re: PALxWamos

Arianespace
Administrator
Here is the EU regulation on lease aircraft from EU carriers.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/Consolidated%20unofficial%20AMC&GM_Annex%20III%20Part-ORO.pdf

Wamos Air is EU carrier with Spain AOC, so it applies to them, particularly the cabin crew (covers aircraft, crew, maintenance, insurance). Making it damp (aircraft, flight crew only) does not make it applicable to lessee's cabin crew, unless they fly to EU destination themselves, as they are governed by PH AOC when operating to Oz. Does not make sense really if it is just limited to that time frame and that particular destinations.

And here is the version of the Australian's on wet leases,

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-01/principle-ops-24-aircraft-leasing-arrangements.pdf

Apparently, wet leases is valid only for 90 days for a 12 month period. PAL applied for 150 days. Interesting development.

If I may add, CEB leases A320 from Bulgaria Air (EU country) also on damp leases. But its cabin crew never did undertake the EASA bruhaha. Basically because they have PH AOC, not EU AOC. Perhaps there is a better explanation for this.
Making Sense
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Re: PALxWamos

romantic_guy08
In reply to this post by seven13
seven13 wrote
I’m inclined to believe, yes. 4 triclass A330 is not enough to serve SYD/MEL + HNL unless they utilize a B777 regularly but SEA is coming online soon.
speaking of SEA, and 77W... when will 84 arrive? wasn't it meant to augment the 77Ws for SEA?
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

peterpiloto
In reply to this post by seven13
seven13 wrote
It was 82 if I’m not mistaken then followed by 81. It was done in CRK for around 3mos? Those were the times PR had to cxl SYD/MEL on some days or the 777 subs for A333 to SYD. HNL will also be frequently delayed by 2-3hrs.

Good thing only 2 frames were approved for densification.
81 and 82 mainly flies to DXB or DOH, DMM and RUH gets them sometimes.
Yep, the added wifi antenna was the clue on 82 & 81




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Re: PAL RP-C8786

airline_builder
What would be best to bridge the gap with the current state PAL is in?

Reconfiguration takes average 3 mons plus the cost on whatever upgrades of seat brands and its inclusions like IFE etc., or order bulks of aircraft sit it out, since payment usually happens upon delivery so that can serve as a saving grace to save up for the carrier?

I cannot tell (well from a professional airline personnel point of view I actually can) where the direction of the puppet CEO aka the board of directors are headed.

thoughts anyone?

let us not call out the 321c reconfig and upgrade since it is already in the press.
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Re: PAL RP-C8786

Arianespace
Administrator
It seems they are already bridging the gap based on our discussions above
Making Sense
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Re: Cebu Pacific

JNC03
In reply to this post by JNC03
Airbus is closing in on a preliminary deal with Philippine budget airline Cebu Air for dozens of narrow-body jets to be announced in the coming days, three people familiar with the matter said on Friday. Cebu Air, which operates as Cebu Pacific, and Airbus both declined to comment on any commercial discussions.

The airline has been looking to order 100-150 narrow-body jets from Boeing or Airbus worth up to $12 billion at list prices, in what was seen as potentially the Philippines' largest jet purchase.

Two of the people said the deal involved 70 jets, including a number of A321neo models.


https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/airbus-nears-initial-deal-cebu-70-jets-sources-say-4443341
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