Manila International Airport

[Arianespace]

Honrado said flight delays were more often caused by the airlines’ failure to comply with their schedules.

At the meeting, the MIAA general manager asked representatives of the airline companies to address the “perennial issue” of flight delays at Ninoy Aquino International Airport (Naia) terminals.

Airline logs

“What causes flight delay is not necessarily air traffic congestion but airline companies falling short of meeting their flight schedules,” Honrado stressed during the meeting.

He presented daily airline logs to prove his point.

“If the first wave of flights, from 4 a.m. to 7 a.m., [is] delayed this will also affect the succeeding flights of the day,” he stressed.

Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/685271/stop-blaming-airport-airlines-told#ixzz3XH1jw584

True. And the airline that blames airport congestion the most happen to be a resident of Terminal 3. Good thing he showed the logs.

[chowpau]

a 5J pilot told me that their clearance will be given to them 30 minutes to 1 hour from their scheduled departure. Another 10-15 minutes to obtain clearance for push back and engine start-up and another 15-30 minutes for take off clearance.

Another story from a flight coming from regional arriving at red-eye, they have to wait at the taxiway until there is available gate in T3. There was even a pilot from a domestic airport going to Manila requested for an earlier EDCT but he was denied because of the traffic congestion in Manila. So they stayed at airport longer on the ground. they were ready to go but they can't because they are waiting for their clearance to be given based on the EDCT

[Arianespace]

That sounds like the pilot is already late. The airline that is. Too obvious. But I guess he never told you that, except those normal things he does.

Don't confuse pilot readiness and plane readiness. They are different animal. Pilot is ready from the time he jumps upon the cockpit. Plane is ready when everything inside is put firmly in place. And that's where clearance comes in.

Thing is, pilots doesn't control departure time. It is with the people on the ground. Much as they would like to go on time, they are really at the mercy of its ground handlers. So when the cargo door does not close on time when your slot at the terminal is over, don't expect ATC to wait for you to finish loading and give you priority clearance for take-off. Remember there are also other planes waiting for their cue. And if it is intended for other airplanes cue you have no right to be there. Of course there are 3 or 4 vacant slots per hour that you may take but once they are all taken you are surely bump to the next hour.

And if it isn't bad, their return arrival happens to be late than their expected TOA causing congestion to the airspace which would otherwise had been intended to those that are scheduled to land at that time thereby causing a longer cue on the ground considering that landing has always been priority than take off. That is the reason why 1 delay ripples to many causing domino effect on the other. Some are manageable in some days and other time worst.

So much argument has been given about clearance delivery for the wrong reason. If the pilot and the plane is ready when it is scheduled to leave the stand there would be no problem on the cue. It will be out flying in 10 minutes from push back. That was made clear to the airlines. It has been suggested in the past that airlines should be ready 5 minutes before push back. None of that is happening.

So if that one aircraft that arrived on time but wait for its cue on the stand because of the delay of another, its next departure is expected to be delayed equal to that time it spent waiting for the other plane to move. And since it would no longer be departing as scheduled it would now intrude into the time of other aircraft waiting its cue to depart. And that is merely one plane. I'm not even factoring aircraft servicing. How many flight is there at NAIA? More than 600 per day.

Its really simple "cause and effect". Not rocket science to be poorly misunderstood.

Short turn-around time is easy at the small domestic airport. Never at the hub like NAIA. But I guess airlines forgot that there is such thing as diminishing returns on human services that equating it with promptness is flawed. Logic tells us that efficiency follows a downward curve after x amount of time doing the same thing.

[swahi]

^^^I have experienced on PAL from a domestic outbound and another domestic inbound manila flight wherein I was already inside the plane, boarded on time, but ended up staying inside the plane for over 30 minutes, with the captain announcing that they couldnt depart due to they don't have clearance yet, citing airport congestion.

However, I have also experienced several times wherein some flights will be on time, but the flights before and after that flight are delayed, which follows what Arianespace posted.

Yesterday Sunday, I had guests on the 730pm flight from cebu to manila cebu pacific, and according to cebpac's flight status, all flights on that route for that day were all delayed.

[Arianespace]

You can actually see what flight departed on time by viewing flightradar24 based on my previous post.

[Arianespace]

I think it has become more apparent that PAL is going for the A350 than the B787.

Clues?

1. The A350XWB world tour goes only to home airports of airlines with existing orders. Take note about the word "existing". I would however say "existing and impending" as the most appropriate word.

2. Presence of an international bank representatives in MNL famously known to be an aircraft lessor few weeks before the A350 arrived.

3. Cebu Pacific says they don't need the A350 at the moment while PAL says we need long hauler planes.

4. The most idiotic clues of all, the A350 parking along PAL tarmac. Of course we could also say other aircraft can park there. WRONG. PAL has exclusive contract to park their planes their. Otherwise they could have stayed at Ages.

Nevertheless, I could still be wrong.

[Arianespace]

Ethiopian Airlines has landed. Welcome to Manila.

[Eurest]

Any chance something like this will materialize for PH's secondary airports? Especially those located in poer starved Mindanao?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/india-launches-world-solar-powered-airport-150819064023397.html

10M$ seems reasonable considering the costs alloted to build the new regional airports

[Arianespace]

This is a good subject for the forum. Why don't you open a new thread and lets discuss it there?

[Solblanc]

Okay, in the other forums, discussion on the airport has gone to the dogs. We don't see any proper discourse, just lots of whining.

Anyway, looking at what we know so far:

- JICA study underway and preliminary findings have been submitted to DOTC
- NATS bagged the runway optimization contract

The current admin did really kick the can when it came to our airport problem. We can still function like this for another year or so, but the congestion is taking its toll.

The next admin will have its work cut out for them. We all know that the end-game lies in Sangley and/or Clark, but what can the next admin do within their six years? Will the runway optimization be enough?

We do know that once the Skyway is completed, Clark becomes more viable. And we could see a train to Clark happen in the next admin. Clark is a natural spillover, but if it becomes too effective a spillover, it could negate our need to build in Sangley.

Your thoughts?

[Arianespace]

Funny how long was this coming. My position was clear starting from the other forum. NAIA is not congested as our authorities proclaim it to be, followed by minions who thought similarly. I am not inclined to believe it is so.

I argued there and to some friends at DOTC ages ago that Gatwick handled more flights than NAIA, so the argument by some old ATO wise guys was flawed. They are still following the old book in the advent of computers literally. Yes, that is how backward we are.

My friend said they are not the same since MNL handles more heavies than LGW. True, yet they are efficient with narrowbody separation. Why is that?

And then my friend said later that we don't have the technology (referring to the proprietary software) employed by the British so I said why don't we hire the services of NATS which run traffic at LGW airport.  Ten years later they just did.

And for that, I just can't imagine how long will it take for the new airport to start construction just by taking a cue from congestion issues? By the way, Sangley Airport construction runs for 10 years to be completed.

Yes, the JICA plan is already submitted but knowing how it is at NEDA I don't know if they are already calendared for deliberation this year. I really hope it is ready for approval next year so that it can be bid out by 2017. Most likely, construction would probably start by 2018. So the next president and the next would not see this completed during his term.

[Arianespace]

Speaking of NEDA, this is what they approved Friday

NEDA approves P131-B mass transport, energy projects

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2015/09/06/1496513/neda-approves-p131-b-mass-transport-energy-projects

Chaired by President Aquino, the NEDA Board also approved the Clark International Airport (CIA) new passenger terminal building, the Naga City Airport Development Project, and the Department of Energy’s Access to Sustainable Energy Program.

Coloma said the CIA new passenger terminal building would be built to expand the airport and accommodate up to three million passengers yearly at a cost of P15.354 billion, including the installation of equipment, machineries and facilities. The funds for the project will come from the national budget.

Meanwhile, the Naga City Airport Development Project will done at a cost of P3.533 billion. The airfield will be reoriented to enable dual-approach landing and takeoff. New airside and landside facilities will be established to meet the growing tourism demand. The fund for the project will come from the General Appropriations Act, Coloma said.

According to the Department of Transportation and Communications, at present the Naga City Airport could not accommodate wide-bodied aircraft because of its short runway and proximity to Mt. Isarog. For this reason, a two-kilometer runway will be built to allow larger planes like Airbus A320 to use the facility.

Judging from that declarations, my projections for Sangley Airport construction stated earlier appear to be accurate.

The NEDA board’s meeting on Friday listed nine projects, but Coloma said the other four would have to be discussed further. These were the Manila-Quezon Avenue Manila Bus Rapid Transit System, the Department of Agrarian Reform’s Inclusive Partnership for Agricultural Competitiveness, the National Irrigation Administration’s Chico River Pump Irrigation Project, and the Ninoy Aquino International Airport Development Project.

By the way, that is for the propose Terminal 5 construction a.k.a Terminal 2 and 3 expansion project. Take note, Sangley is not even in the agenda just yet.

[Solblanc]

Interesting.

The development of Clark is pretty odd for me. The airport terminals were envisioned to be on the other side of the airfield, and yet they were expanding the small one at the present site. I assume that the new terminal will be constructed on the other side. Will the two terminals be operating at the same time, despite the fact that their interconnection will be difficult?

As for NAIA's congestion, while theoretically, the passengers can still go in and out, growth can't go on at the same rate, and at the same time, the passenger experience has suffered notably. Gone are the days when we can just land at Terminal 1 and be out of the airport in 15 minutes.

The setup of NAIA also isn't very friendly to our local airlines that hub there. No airline can hub in a single terminal anymore.

Add to the fact that most Pinoys that travel will mostly see airports like HKG, SIN, BKK, and KUL, we have the recipe for the monumental whining that we get in the other forum.

Thing is, I feel that our present admin is too scared to make the next step. We were able to achieve so many credit upgrades in the past five years. Our fiscal position has improved remarkably; we're even a net creditor to the IMF. The recipe for us to build is there. We have the resources, we have the traffic, and we have the demand. All we have to do is start.

[Arianespace]

We should make a thread for Clark.

[Arianespace]

More from NEDA. Sec. Abaya just spoke over the weekend.

http://www.manilatimes.net/ph-needs-new-airport-even-with-naia-upgrade-dotc/216657/

“What JICA gave us was an interim report on the location. That is being processed now by NEDA [National Economic and Development Authority]. A full feasibility study should have been done by March or April but realistically, what you could expect is a NEDA Board approval on a location, not the project itself. That will be subject of a separate approval,” DOTC Secretary Emilio Joseph Abaya told reporters.

Abaya explained: “The NEDA Board decision is just on the location because a lot of businessmen will appreciate a formal government decision [as to] where the next airport will be, then they could plan on how to adjust their operation. Location — that’s one decision we can make for the next administration, deciding where the next airport will be and also for business and ordinary folks.”

That would be March 2016 at the earliest for the airport design. He just validated my previous schedule. But I very much doubt its completion in 2025. Good thing about JICA is their report being comprehensive that it is just a matter of validating proposed design that when structures are built, it surely would be fast. Also, most likely than not, it would probably be a Japanese firm that will build the airport from ground up when funded by ODA grant. That is how Japanese funding has always been. And its faster than proposed PPP. We just need the money for project counterpart.

I'm told it will gradually be scaled up. Meaning, they will open it at the initial terminal capacity of 50 million and then grow it up to 100 million. So there will still be construction when the airport is made open to the public.

[Eurest]

http://www.manilatimes.net/dotc-to-endorse-two-sites-for-new-airport/225110/

So it seems the final locations have finally been narrowed to either Sangley for 10B$ or Central Manila Bay for 13B$ and is targeted at an initial 2,000 hectare size.
Any ideas where in Central Manila Bay, I doubt it is the same site where SMC proposed their build as that would mean having to pay for land that is currently still under litigation?

In comparison, the recent DOH airport airport costs 15.5-17B$ for a 2,200 hectare facility but did not need land reclamation.
KIX, which did need land reclamation as well as add'l costs related to the sinking, for a 2,600 hectare facility cost 18-22B$

[Solblanc]

Well, we have lower labor costs than Qatar or Japan, and there's plenty of cheap cement that can be sourced from within the region. I guess that should contribute to the lower price tag.

I guess our population density really rules out any option that doesn't require reclamation, save for Clark.

The next admin will really have a mess on their plate when it comes to the airport.

[Arianespace]

Forget Central Manila Bay. That was just there for selection purposes, standard for FS. Project cost is still pegged at $10B. And don't expect it to be build like HKG. It will more likely be KIX type development.

[Eurest]

Not a fan of HKG's layout, much prefer the simple layout of KIX's terminals





Perhaps it was a good thing for the Philippines that Indonesia chose China over Japan for the Bandung high speed rail, as there will be more funds for loans to the PH

[majaba]

Hi everyone. I just joined this forum, but we do know each other through SKYS.City.

Looks like finally Pnoy will announce a final decision for NAIA´s substitution before he steps down. So Sangley it will be. Hope they will this time keep the schedule opening for end of 2017.

Looking forward to the APEC meetings Nov. Wonder when first renderings will fall in ?