Manila International Airport

[Arianespace]

maortega15 wrote

I'm sorry if I have to ask this and if this offends anyone, but does anyone feel that Manila is a hopeless cause?

I feel that way and by the looks of things, I don't see a completely new airport being opened in my lifetime. In airliners.net, foreigners as well have given up hope of a completely new airport being built. Feasibility studies and bidding's being done left and right and it seems that there is no end in sight.

If they really wanted a completely new airport, something would've been done ages ago. But it is what it is. Hell, it took terminal 3 ages before it finally opened.

Its a legitimate question, but its not a hopeless cause. We just have to elect a better President.

It's more like a product of government policy shift brought by different directional plans of a sitting president.

For example, from the time of Ramos presidency in 1992, Clark Airport was already earmmarked for transformation as the country's main gateway that in 1997 we already got a masterplan, thus the design you might have seen today. There was no plan for a new airport. Clark was it!



It was supposed to be complemented with an expressway and high speed rail component towards Manila.

As you can see now, the expressway is done and the railway should be completed by this time together with the massive airport terminal 1. But sad things happen during the Arroyo Presidency. You must have heard about the fabled north rail project and why she is in jail. Imagine, already paying China for a rail line that looks like this one:



So when the Japanese took over, they have to look outside the box and avoid the mess they would surely be entangled with and end like terminal 3 fiasco in much bigger picture.

Expat's whining unfortunately doesn't know how a mega airport works. They don't know what happened to the Terminal 3 project either and why the delay and what causes the delay. Sometimes, whining is the easiest part. I can't imagine either that I voted and worked for that President who is now in detention.

Sometimes the best hope lies in the people themselves by voting the best candidate there is who is NOT LYING AT ALL. If they already are, how much more when they sit on the throne.

[tigz]

Hopefully the next president will plant a technocrat with DOTC, not a politician. I wish congress come up with a law that only allows career government executives to be appointed as department secretaries, much like how PNP and AFP change guards. It should be the cream and crop amongst the regional directors. Transportation infrastructure are long term undertakings so if a presidential appointee aint have a clue on the history and paper trail, it will just be status quo until the change of guards.

[swahi]

So where are we now as far as finding a replacement for the existing T1/2/3/4 complex?  Are we nearer to putting it at Cavite?  Or are we still keeping the idea of Clark alive?

[Eurest]

I'd be surprised if the current Cavite based DoTC secretary would want a cash cow like a new Int'l airport located other than Sangley.

The Laguna lake site being reported also sounds iffy since the PH gov't has already bid out the flood control and expressway project along the near-Metro Manila side of Laguna de Bay
They could just decide to flatten the mountains like what HK did

[Arianespace]

tigz wrote

Hopefully the next president will plant a technocrat with DOTC, not a politician. I wish congress come up with a law that only allows career government executives to be appointed as department secretaries, much like how PNP and AFP change guards. It should be the cream and crop amongst the regional directors. Transportation infrastructure are long term undertakings so if a presidential appointee aint have a clue on the history and paper trail, it will just be status quo until the change of guards.

That is a dream alright. Some career executives do end up department secretaries. Most prominent of which is the late Emilia Boncodin. I also knew another one from Finance and Health who eventually became boss. Some great minds did end up working for GMA and left her afterwards. Most of them have great expectations for a better government that ended in frustrations.

If you must know, airport building is not solely DOTC undertaking alone. It actually involves various government agencies working together in making such massive undertaking possible, but of course few know this to be fact so the blame game ends at DOTC lap.

swahi wrote

So where are we now as far as finding a replacement for the existing T1/2/3/4 complex?  Are we nearer to putting it at Cavite?  Or are we still keeping the idea of Clark alive?

There is already a brand new replacement in place for NAIA and we got a thread for that. The dual gateway concept was actually put in place lately by the Aquino administration. So Clark airport is very much still there. But due to landside component problems it will remain to be an alternate airport to MNL.

Eurest wrote

The Laguna lake site being reported also sounds iffy since the PH gov't has already bid out the flood control and expressway project along the near-Metro Manila side of Laguna de Bay
They could just decide to flatten the mountains like what HK did

There was no Laguna Lake to begin with. It was just floated for comparison sake but no real engineering value. And of course you cannot flatten a mountain approach, honestly. Hill maybe, but not a mountain.

[tigz]

Indeed airports are complex infrastructures as it entails more study from environmental impact, to storm water management, geodetics, structural engineering, urban planning, etc. And I'm counting at least 6 secrertaries banging heads here. However, if all are politically detached, it is more convenient to decide!

[Solblanc]

The problem with the Clark masterplan is that it didn't just get caught in a policy shift, it also got caught in a shift of urban planning philosophies.

When Clark was conceived, it was done during the time when urban planners were encouraging airports to be located away from cities; the further the better, and Clark would've been the furthest airport to the city that it's supposed to serve. More emphasis was placed on the nature of the airport as a hub.

Nowadays, it's more popular for airports to be more integrated to the cities they serve, and the nearer, the better. LHR serves London, yes, but the highest airfares can be commanded from the services to LCY. MXP is supposed to be Milan's main airport, but as long as LIN exists, people will always prefer to fly through LIN, no matter how small and cramped the terminal and ramp space is. And of course, HND opening up has caused NRT to bleed traffic.

Once upon a time, NAIA's location was very much appreciated. One could get off a flight and be in the Makati CBD as early as 40 minutes from the minute you step off the airbridge. That contributed to airlines not wanting to move at all from NAIA. And speaking of airlines, I still believe that if it weren't for PAL's intransigence, the Fraport deal could've been saved and NAIA-3 could've opened much earlier. Of course there were other factors, but it didn't have to become the mess that it became.

But we also have to recognize that the planning inertia also hurts the riding public. There was so much focus on where to put the new airport that people forgot that the existing airport needs a break. Technically, even though there was cold feet about moving everything to Clark, a decent intercity rail service connecting Manila (or even QC) to a medium-sized passenger terminal in Clark that could handle some 10M pax per annum could have been made operational within the past six years taking some of the heat off NAIA at this time. If northrail were handled properly from the start, it could've really made a difference.

But hey, there's a new admin coming in. And transportation will be the issue of the day. We'll see what they can do to address it.

[tigz]

Even with a rail link the drawback with Clark is its  appeal to the riding public to take the train which will probably charge some hundred pesos plus extra for the baggage. The culture in general is accustomed to send off families and friends in numbers so one probably just hire transpo to accommodate people and cargo; consequently, this will just congest the roadway and leaving the train sparsely occupied. In turn, how will the build operate company recoup expense!. Next off, in the event of a breakdown, how efficient is the back-up so one could still make-up for loss of time.

[Arianespace]

You'll be surprised to know that most passengers from the top 40 airports with rail access uses the mass transport system going to the Metro.

[Solblanc]

tigz wrote

Even with a rail link the drawback with Clark is its  appeal to the riding public to take the train which will probably charge some hundred pesos plus extra for the baggage. The culture in general is accustomed to send off families and friends in numbers so one probably just hire transpo to accommodate people and cargo; consequently, this will just congest the roadway and leaving the train sparsely occupied. In turn, how will the build operate company recoup expense!. Next off, in the event of a breakdown, how efficient is the back-up so one could still make-up for loss of time.

Uhm, that's not the point. Of course Clark has its inconveniences. That being said, if we're going to operate a dual-airport system, then we should invest in the second airport, especially when growth at naia is already restricted and its replacement will not come for another ten years. HND opening up drew traffic away from NRT, but there is still sizeable NRT traffic nonetheless. Same thing with LHR and all the other London airports.

We're supposed to be giving people options, especially since we have reached the critical mass of air traffic to be able to support two airports

[tigz]

I just couldn't picture myself taking international to Clark then dragging my "boxes" and family in tow at the train to transfer at NAIA. Its already exhausting enought transiting within T2 from abroad to domestic. If some airlines like CX or DL are relegated to Clark, I'd stick to PAL; I'm sure they will stay where they are. Metro Manila is just not efficient transport wise for the obvious if we compare with highly developed cosmopolitan areas. BTW, my city just reduced the airport express train fare in order to attract more middle class customers. Apparently, only business people are taking it and some tourist. There is also a city airport serving regional flights so there goes the train!

[Arianespace]

Clark needs a rail component to work. Without it everything fails.

[tigz]

Are those pillars still structurally viable if the rail continues or they're literally dud at this point in time!

[tigz]

So this rail link from where I am will set you back at least P400 for a one way trip on a 23km stretch. Not much infra was spent since its integrated to an existing rail line plus two station stops. I believe Clark is 4 times longer so that at least triple or double cost, say some savings on cheap labor but more civil works to do. If I use the same value will I be paying more than P1000 for a one way commute? This must be the single biggest factor why the rail may not be economically viable. Better off spending that billions building a new one close to Manila. Perhaps maybe why Sangley is it.

[Arianespace]

tigz wrote

Are those pillars still structurally viable if the rail continues or they're literally dud at this point in time!

You can't touch them now because they are subject to litigation. If you know what happened to Terminal 3, that pillar is like that. If government decides Clark, the airport will be hostaged by this bottleneck. That's why it's easier to build it somewhere else, where funding to all these things come from one source, Japan.

[tigz]

Does the court order prevent DPWH from installing temporary cover to protect the rebars?, or shall we say prevention of tampering evidence from vandalism or protection from act of nature! How did GMA incriminate herself on this project?

[majaba]

Simple and clear words that say everything and bring it to the point.

[Arianespace]

tigz wrote

Does the court order prevent DPWH from installing temporary cover to protect the rebars?, or shall we say prevention of tampering evidence from vandalism or protection from act of nature! How did GMA incriminate herself on this project?

Its not even DPWH project to begin with so why intervene? We can have discussion here on the how but that will be out of topic already.

[Arianespace]

Another interesting story in the news

Clark International Airport Corp. CEO Emigdio Tanjuatco III said seven more international airlines had expressed their intention to “look at” Clark.

These are Taiwanese low-cost carrier V-Air, Jet Star of Singapore, regional carrier Thai Smile, Malaysia’s Rayani Air, Express Air of Indonesia, Air India and Airline 4.0, a new carrier in the United States.

Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/770365/7-foreign-airlines-take-closer-look-at-clark#ixzz41n6tl5r7

Note the word "intention to look". It is very different from "intention to fly" because all of them applied for MNL, not CRK. And they were offered the latter should they be interested. There are five more not on the lists wanting to fly the capital.

[Arianespace]

Philippine Airlines has just provided a one night free accommodation in Manila for LHR-OZ vv flights on one of the legs the passenger can't have immediate flight connections at an amazing price of $1200pp.

That is truly a good deal for tourists. Turn a connecting flight into a holiday within a holiday. Must be part of the 75th anniversary promo which should be happening tomorrow.