Airlines in the Philippines

[airboy007]

the GUM/HNL techstops are occasionally back when LT got full control. the 340s cant help it, especially when the loads are high, or the headwinds are too strong. not as regular as they used to be though.

[Solblanc]

One curious thing is that, while the lessors have made a press release, PAL itself is still silent. One would think that an expansion of the widebody fleet would entail some sort of announcement on pal's website

[Travelbug_89]

I flew PR 152/153 late January/early February, there were only about 180 passengers each way. J Class had less than 10 passengers. Being Bisaya, I'd take that flight any day over PR102/103 and PR112/113 (plus I can practice my Cebuano:D). On the LAX-CEB leg we didn't make the stop in GUM, it was 15.5 hrs non-stop.

Also, would an A330-800neo or 788 be able to do CEB-LAX non-stop all year round? Airbus has the A338's range listed at 7500 nm and the Boeing lists the 788 at 7355 nm. The former is at 257 seats (3-class it looks like) and the latter at 242 seats in a 2 class layout.

[Arianespace]

The A340 replacement is the A350. The two 77w could be more like an LHR upgrade since their J loads has been growing on that sector, while covering another one on D check and refit.

And while OZ could be a great fit, its too big to fly down under. The re-configured A330 works perfectly on that route.

[Eurest]

Lease rates for widebodies are very, very affordable now.
Especially for the B77W, as Boeing needs to fill the production gap prior to the 777-8/9.
So lessors are looking for placements aggressively, as almost no one is taking up widebodies and most are even deferring.

Previously reliable customers for the lessors like the ME3 are not doing so well as business travel has drastically reduced last year, and they are getting punished hard with the US travel bans, and now the on-board electronics restrictions.
Who wants to fly with the ME3 or TK if you can't bring your electronics?
Which business would let their people fly on ME3+TK if they can't work onboard while on a 16hr flight because their laptops with proprietary info is in the baggage hold?
US was the lifeline for ME3 as EU connecting traffic was suffering from overcapacity, Trump may have just given them the death knell.

PR adding 2 B77Ws is smart, it improves their product on markets still using the A343 while waiting for the A359 deliveries
It also gives them flexibility down the road as the first 77Ws reach 12 years of age
PR is now actively courting NZ+OZ to US & LHR connecting traffic by offering ridiculously low fares, so a better product as well as consistency would help them secure Oceania connecting pax

For PR's image, the fewer the longhauls the A343s do, the better. Parts for the 340 are now fewer and more expensive, and I can't imagine customers like the product in the A343 or having their flights cancelled because they went tech

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The bigger news IMO is the International Airline taking a stake in PAL
Will they do the entire 40% or what's the norm now which is a 10% stake?

AA is buying a stake in Skyteam CZ, are the US3 looking to secure their foothold in Asia?
Might DL want another Skyteam partner if it loses CZ to OneWorld?
IAG is flush with cash having just started their new longhaul LCC
Would they be looking at investing in PR as it too can offer low cost flights to Asia and OZ/NZ?
Might the Lufthansa group or AF/KLM be looking at an Asian subsidiary as well?

Full service carriers are basically hybrid now, as almost everyone has adopted the minimum frills Y fare, so a carrier with a low cost base like PR, while giving you access to a prospective staff known for their courteous service but have Western values and ideology, and long the core of the ME3 staff, be a interesting acquisition.

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For 180 pax, both A338 and B788 would be able to do CEB-LAX but LAX-CEB on certain months.
The A338 is yet unproven, and the B788 has a lot of tech issues that it would be to much of a hassle for the 16hr flight
Plus Boeing would prefer you to buy the B789, as the 788 line should be closed soon
Might be cheaper just to lease or buy new B77Ws, as these are the enhanced versions
Or you could pick-up old B77Ws/Ls going off lease from EK or SQ from their lessors

[Arianespace]

This is what we know straight from the horses mouth,

"It is a 5 star carrier."

“the potential partner had experience in getting star ratings.”

“The due diligence already completed.  We’re talking about nitty gritty. Valuation is one.”

"talks so far involved less than 40 percent of PAL Holdings, which had a market value of about P133.4 billion."

“They will contribute equity. They can contribute to management. They can help with the route, codeshare and possible membership in an alliance,”

"It was not a Middle East-based airline."

HOW HARD CAN IT BE?

These are the World's 5-Star Airlines

All Nippon Airways (Star Alliance)
Asiana Airlines (Star Alliance)
Cathay Pacific (Oneworld)
Etihad Airways.
EVA Air (Star Alliance)
Garuda Indonesia (SkyTeam)
Hainan Airlines.
Qatar Airways (Oneworld)
Singapore Airlines (Star Alliance)

Two of these 5 star rated airlines were talking to PAL since SMC days, and one was already discounted. The other one was given with a "clue". And they are in buying spree across Asia but this one is the biggest of them all ($1 billion) when sealed. They were not in talks with anyone else. Meaning she only has two suitors.

But then again, I could be wrong.

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And then meron pa. Remember the 5 A330 that were not taken by the airline but apparently replaced with A321Neo? They are still there and the airline is contemplating of adding them to the fleet after the A350 orders.

Talking about the timeliness of Eurest post. As to whether they could be the NEO is everyones guess as the one who whispered to me speaks about 2020 delivery or thereabouts, which I think is timely because by then they will have no choice but to add growing capacity in the middle east. No further details were added. My hunch would make me believe it to be the CEO, but then again, I could be wrong still.

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

This is what we know straight from the horses mouth,

"It is a 5 star carrier."

“the potential partner had experience in getting star ratings.”

“The due diligence already completed.  We’re talking about nitty gritty. Valuation is one.”

"talks so far involved less than 40 percent of PAL Holdings, which had a market value of about P133.4 billion."

“They will contribute equity. They can contribute to management. They can help with the route, codeshare and possible membership in an alliance,”

"It was not a Middle East-based airline."

HOW HARD CAN IT BE?

These are the World's 5-Star Airlines

All Nippon Airways (Star Alliance)
Asiana Airlines (Star Alliance)
Cathay Pacific (Oneworld)
Etihad Airways.
EVA Air (Star Alliance)
Garuda Indonesia (SkyTeam)
Hainan Airlines.
Qatar Airways (Oneworld)
Singapore Airlines (Star Alliance)

Im betting on ANA since relationship is already there...

[seven13]

Is MPH bound to start operating international flights?
I was search this thread and saw that the apron can only handle only one jet at a time as opposed to 2 props.

[Richard]

With the new apron (opposite and other end of the runway) in place, nine parking positions are available. I suggest that international airlines will only commence once the new terminal is up and running. So give it another 1 1/2 years or so before international carriers will land there.

Possibly PAL and 5J will commence with international flights earlier. Just my speculations though, no definitive information......

[Arianespace]

seven13 wrote

Is MPH bound to start operating international flights?
I was search this thread and saw that the apron can only handle only one jet at a time as opposed to 2 props.

That would be the old ramp prior to the opening of the new ramp area. MPH airport permit is domestic. SMC contract with the gov't is likewise domestic. It was not also listed as regional airport for ASEAN region. The airport with international license is farther east.

So the answer to that question would be No.

[seven13]

Should SMC decide it wants to operate MPH as an international airport, could it easily do so? Do all the paperworks and get approval with the government?

[Arianespace]

No it cannot.

You might wonder why?

Because the government is developing Kalibo as the gateway.

Why Kalibo? You can grow a bigger airport out of it, simple. By 2018 it is expected to become the third busiest airport surpassing Davao. For this reason, when the O&M contract is auctioned next you will see a grand terminal bigger than Iloilo rising east of the runway. SMC is already bent to bid on this project.

[Richard]

I´m sure they will have international flights once the new terminal is done. So fantastically convenient the new terminal will be, so much shorter the last bit of travel to Boracay. Getting to the Island from Kalibo is approx. equivalent to a flight to Hong Kong. In my opinion it´s only a matter of time.

[Richard]

A grand terminal for Kalibo? Have you seen a rendering or how do you know? Would be nice to share it with us please, if you do.

Judging by infrastructure procurements, even under consideration of a sudden and swift change of speed in these matters under the Duterte Admin., I simply do not believe a grand terminal will be up and running by 2018 in Kalibo. Catalan though has a realistic chance of being ready to that schedule.

When ever - where ever it may be, why expand Kalibo when you have an expansion going on in front of the door at no cost to the government and to the taxpayer?

[seven13]

Kindly re-read his post. No mentioning of a terminal running larger than Iloilo by 2018. It's surpassing DVO as third busiest airport by 2018.

I've seen that Catalan word somewhere; by any means do you go by the username of richard_fischer at the other forum?

[seven13]

Eurest wrote

Lease rates for widebodies are very, very affordable now.
Especially for the B77W, as Boeing needs to fill the production gap prior to the 777-8/9.
So lessors are looking for placements aggressively, as almost no one is taking up widebodies and most are even deferring.

This should be the main reason why 5J leased 8 frames? I just saw someone posting it on airliners.

[Richard]

Yes, I ´m Richard, active on both forums, seven13.

Kalibo will get a new terminal, but I read that the government has problems buying the land off the owners around the (runway and terminal) extensions, as they suddenly realize the worth of that land and have raised prices tremendously. Again, to the cost of the taxpayer, a more expensive airport, and that - farther away. Why insist on expanding an airport at public cost, when you have one being developed closer at no cost to the tax payer and government coffers?

The runway can be expanded on both ends in Caticlan. That´s what the render showed us a long time ago. I also heard of ecological constraints with building a concrete runway over beach ends, coral reefs, which, I admit, does need to be considered.

The best argument I think that´s plausible for implementing a two airport system so close to one another is, if you can´t build a 3.200/3.600 m. runway for long haul flights in Caticlan, you might need that second location. Then, and only then you do need a second airport - Kalibo.

But again, I´m not a professional airport advisor, it just seems to be a matter of logical and economical common sense.

[Arianespace]

The government also has problems with Caticlan's land acquisition, more than what they encountered in Kalibo. In fact, that is the reason why SMC hasn't build the terminal just yet. Because the government has not given them the land.

If you must know it is not SMC that is buying the land. It is the government. SMC only builds the airport and operates it. What is bought is taxpayers money. The land for the runway extension from the erstwhile hill and the new ramp are taxpayers money.

Further to that, ECC will not be available to the sea extension while Kalibo doesn't have that problems. There are number of government permits which require prior approval for airport building and one tough cookie is enviromental compliance.

All airport building, except those owned privately, ie Balesin, are funded by public funds. Make no mistake about that. It is just the projected airport revenues that are paid in advance by the operator. SMC does not own Caticlan airport. Government does. Make no mistake about that too. And government policy does not allow airports within 50 kms. radius from each other. Why? Because we are an islands state. Each island should have an airport which we are not lucky to have.

Now, since we are talking economics, does it sound fair to say folks from Carabao island?

[Richard]

OK, thanks for clearance. So the terminal in Catalan will have to wait for another "who knows how long" again.

Another question/change of topics:
5J switched maintenance from Singapore Engineering to AF/KLM Engineering.
• It still is cheaper flying all their aircraft to Paris or Amsterdam for maintenance instead of simply to Clark?
• What will happen with Singapore Engineering in Clark. They just lost, I would think, 75 % of their maintenance customer service?

[seven13]

Does anybody know to which countries are PH carriers granted 5th freedom from TPE?