Manila International Airport

[Arianespace]

From what I understand in the past, Clark is being developed to be one. If you noticed, they are building an LCC terminal, although Vince doesn't say it was. It still is, and no new DOTr policy issued at this time. The aim is to make Manila a full service airport in the future to  arrest overcapacity issues. That should translate to around 25mppa domestic traffic out by 2020. However, PAA, GAP and CEB were not inclined to surrender their slots, so what was decided by the previous Admin was a smaller LCC terminal. Note however that it is modular, assuming they change their minds.

Sangley on the other hand is being developed as a turboprop and GA airport in the short term.

In sum, Clark is more like Gatwick if you don't have landing slot at MNL and Sangley is more like London City.

[tigz]

So what's the scoop with Sangley now? There were grand illustrations showing double parallel runways and a causeway cutting thru Manila bay. Last time I've seen on a blue print is a mere genav conversion and a token commercial terminal about 150pax capacity for prop flights. Not the regional jetport to relieve NAIA as envisioned. Speaking of which, is the second parallel runway actually feasible? At 2000x45m min it will still require wiping out a swath of the adjacent subdivision for runway edge safety area. As for Clark, would the train fare be affordable enough to warrant an alternate option for passengers on a connecting flight? That already cost some time for transit, a hefty train ticket will hurt even more.

[Arianespace]

Solblanc asked the same question. The answer to your query is in page 11.

The blueprint you saw is what it is. And it will grow from there.

As to second NAIA parallel runway, it still is. In fact it is considered by O&M proponents.

As to Clark train, lets wait for the track to be completed. Its too premature to even speculate.

[maortega15]

Does this law still exist where T1 can't be torn down because of it being designed by a national artist or something like that just like the CCP?

Sucks if true.

That area should be developed to something like a greenspace or whatever.

[Arianespace]

Yes there is. It is called "Cultural Heritage Act" of 2010 (RA10066). If you noticed, it has just been renovated because of that. And they weren't allowed to modify the structure.

Sucks, maybe. Its like telling the Brits to tear down their parliament building. You need another law to delist it as such.

Meanwhile. T2, T3, and T4 can be remodelled differently.

[maortega15]

Arianespace wrote

Yes there is. It is called "Cultural Heritage Act" of 2010 (RA10066). If you noticed, it has just been renovated because of that. And they weren't allowed to modify the structure.

Sucks, maybe. Its like telling the Brits to tear down their parliament building. You need another law to delist it as such.

Meanwhile. T2, T3, and T4 can be remodelled differently.

Now that's just blasphemous comparing T1 to the Palace of Westminster lol

The should've at least preserved the exterior to it's original state. Like use the same materials. Not really liking the exterior renovation. They should've also kept the old split-flap display.

[Arianespace]

I was actually vouching for its retention but its obsolescence and serviceability problems casts its doom. Split flap maintenance is very expensive as compared to the new led display.  

[Solblanc]

It would’ve been nice to keep it, though. Gone are the days when you’d hear the flaps and then you automatically look up to see if there are any updates.

So, nowadays, all sorts of private investors seem to want a piece of the action. 40m pax per annum is a bonanza for any private company wanting to operate an airport. Question is, do we really want the private sector to take the lead here? Isn’t there anything that they’re proposing that government can’t do itself? How difficult can it be to build new rapid-exit taxiways that we’re proposed years ago?

As for sangley, that’s gonna be super expensive. I know that JICA is already throwing so much money at the MM subway, but surely the Japanese would be amenable to financing this project under ODA terms?

[idp5601]

Letting the government run NAIA would only work if the people in charge of it were capable technocrats with the political will to fix it. Only problem is, time and time again the government has proved that it is uninterested in fixing NAIA themselves. All we hear is talk, talk, talk but zero action. Whatever happened to planning for the proposed LCC Terminal? Didn't Abaya and co make such a big show and dance about it?

CEB was basically like this before Megawide-GMR stepped in. The old, pre-concession administration would talk about getting more airlines to start service in MCIA and their grand plans for the airport, but at the end of the day it was still terrible. Only when the likes of Louie Ferrer and Andrew Harrison stepped in did we see tangible change.

[Arianespace]

Solblanc wrote

Isn’t there anything that they’re proposing that government can’t do itself? How difficult can it be to build new rapid-exit taxiways that we’re proposed years ago?

As for sangley, that’s gonna be super expensive. I know that JICA is already throwing so much money at the MM subway, but surely the Japanese would be amenable to financing this project under ODA terms?

Because we need the money to build Sangley. Keep in mind that ODA do have terms, and they require counterpart funds. Perhaps Laguindingan airport project should guide you and why it took them a long time to complete.

As for the taxiway, the problem there is that MIAA doesn't keep any money. All is remitted to the Treasury. It comes back to them by way of appropriations. We had a conversation about this in the other forum a long time ago. It should be worth reiterating here.

idp5601 wrote

 All we hear is talk, talk, talk but zero action. Whatever happened to planning for the proposed LCC Terminal? Didn't Abaya and co make such a big show and dance about it?

CEB was basically like this before Megawide-GMR stepped in. The old, pre-concession administration would talk about getting more airlines to start service in MCIA and their grand plans for the airport, but at the end of the day it was still terrible. Only when the likes of Louie Ferrer and Andrew Harrison stepped in did we see tangible change.

That is because DU30 government changed the terminal expansion plans of the previous administration. It would have been ready for implementation by 2016 and could be operating now. If you know how politics runs in the Philippines then you would understand.

But make no mistake. We do have competent people that runs airports and GMR is just an airport operator. Whatever grandiose desires they have is an aspirations. don't be deceived by their illusions.
 

[idp5601]

Fair point, but the decent people who can competently run airports are few and far between.

And yeah sure their illustrations and renders are just aspirations, but at least when private infrastructure companies finish their work it is pretty close to what they were intending, unlike the government which either severely underdelivers or does not deliver at all.

[Arianespace]

I assure you there are plenty. But what can you do when your arms are tied? Nothing.

You must also not forget that government infrastructures are designed to be minimalist. We do have a "Law" for that. It is called "Procurement Act."

And sometimes this minimalist architecture do look good.



As for the exception, you can marvel Terminal 1 and Terminal 2. Terminal 1 was the most elegant in Southeast Asia if not the whole of Asia when it opens its door to the public, until it was eventually overtaken by time and traffic. And they were not minimalist terminal. Because they were foreign-funded.

[Solblanc]

Our procurement law hasn't stopped the likes of Napoles from bleeding taxpayer money. And if these people have friends in COA, then it becomes even sillier. We go through all this red tape and jockey for funding with the folks at dbm but for what?

Anyway, back to Manila's airport, we already have Clark being constructed, so that should help somewhat, especially if the train gets there. Even JICA saw Clark as a spillover while the new Manila airport is being constructed. The question is, will the current admin be able to decide on the new airport finally?

What I can see happening is that, if the train to Clark proves to be fast, reliable, and consistent, then we could see incremental improvements at Clark while policymakers kick the can and delay the decision for years to come. But that might not benefit local airlines as it splits their operations between two airports.

We know the limitations of government, and we know that we should be wary of the private sector. But will any of these private sector proposals see the light of day?

We have already grown to be the 3rd largest economy in ASEAN. Access to credit is cheap thanks to pnoy, and our revenue-generating capacity has been remarkably improved thanks to gma and du30. In theory, we should be able to solve a problem like naia, or at least take the first step (like approving the reclamation of land somewhere, or clearing up a certain airbase) during this admin.

[Arianespace]

Solblanc wrote

We know the limitations of government, and we know that we should be wary of the private sector. But will any of these private sector proposals see the light of day?

Well some of it might. The problem with the proposal is that it is too long. About 35 years. What the government wanted is only 25 years at most. Because by that time the new airport would be fully operational.

[Arianespace]

You may want to see where the consortium's new terminal is. Yes it's the same location as that of PAL because its in the same location as that prepared by DOTr.

 

And here is their new proposed 3rd runway, abandoning the parallel 6/24 plans earlier. Clever ey!



Question. Where does Sangley fit in the equation?

It is as if the consortium is bent on perpetuating the contract with options to go big. Further reclamation down north. This is exactly what is wrong with this proposal. Future proofing contract to still be awarded to you. Clever but not smart move.

[idp5601]

Would actually be a decent proposal if they just stopped at Phase 1.

[Solblanc]

Well, 35 years is a long time. If the consortium fails to put up a 3rd runway, Clark is still there to steal market share away from them.

That 3rd runway does lay the foundations, though, for a new airport in Manila bay. Let's see if the consortium can succeed where PEA-Amari failed.

[Arianespace]

Meanwhile, the GMR-Megawide consortium is offering a much lower $3-billion (approximately P156 billion) price tag proposal with a shorter 18-year concession. No fuss. No muss. Note how this amount is sufficient for ODA counterpart fund for a $10B project. Coincidence?

[Solblanc]

Megawide already bagged Cebu and Clark, though. Will the competition commission allow them to get anywhere near the crown jewel of NAIA?

Also, I’m not forgetting what happened when PIATCO managed to steal T3 from AEDC. Here’s hoping that it won’t degenerate into an ugly fight among oligarchs

[Arianespace]

Its possible if they win the Swiss Challenge. This early the two competing group are bent on outsmarting each other. And that is good. What is being offered by the government is the T2 and T3 expansion and/or T5, or both. As for the rest, are mere publicity stunts to outdo the other.


The GMR drawing that encompasses T1 and LTP is not possible. We have discussed that here why it is not.