Airlines in the Philippines

[Eurest]

The way other seats with an A or V config go 3 wide for middle rows is to have the 3rd seat have the same angle as the middle row

Looking like this:

A B  D E F  H J
\  /   \  / /   \ /

As for the 2 B77W next year, Recaro no longer offers the old model installed in the current ones, and I don't think it will pass new standards like HIC testing
The only current Recaro biz seat is the herringbone CL6710 as Recaro has focused on economy seats as they are now 4th in terms of market share after Zodiac, B/E Aero, and Stelia

Any guesses whether PR will go either:
Herringbone like DL, AC, NZ and coffin CX
Reverse Herringbone like new CX, AA, VN's 787, BR, CI, QR
Staggered Herringbone like old VA
Forward/rear like old UA, BA and EY's 787 and A380
Staggered forward facing like JL, OZ, old EY, AB and KE
Or V seats like LH and HA and PR A330

Personally I prefer SQ's very wide Biz suites, reminds me of the width and cushion of the old recliners but the recent trend among Asian carriers seems to be either Reverse Herringbone or Staggered forward with Reverse Herringbone offering much more choice as well as cheaper options

[Solblanc]

I've honestly taken a liking to reverse herringbone. On a QR 787 window seat, it is just divine. On a CX middle seat, however, it seems a bit awkward.

I'm gonna be trying out TK's 77W flatbeds. I know that they're not ideal, especially when it comes to cabin density, as the pitch required is just too big, but I wonder why PR chose for the 77W Recaro seats that couldn't go full-flat. They might as well have just reduced the pitch and added more seats.

If we compare some seating layouts, reverse herringbone on a 77W will end up taking about as much space as the current 2-3-2 layout with 75" pitch. But I wonder if it'll be light, though.

[Eurest]

Despite work having me fly on Star Alliance carriers, I've yet to fly on TK. Mostly stuck on AC, and UA's JV partners LH and NH.
Thankfully, I've been lucky to avoid UA on transpacific flights and been booked on NH.
I kinda like their 1-2-1 J class layout but the staggered layout gets confusing at first on booking as the letters alternate every row.
It's funny though that despite having so many J seats on a B77W, they still manage to fully book all seats from US to JPY.
Things got more peculiar on my first MNL bound sector, trying out their 2-1-2 J and being assigned the middle seat.

I think PR got a Boeing gallery version B77W, w/c at the time they ordered it, those J seats would still do. And their generous pitch effectively gives you direct aisle access but at the time they got delivered, J seats took quite a revolution after carriers were struggling to attract the meager business traffic after the global financial crisis.

The reverse herringbone seats are undergoing new certification tests at the moment so that carriers can run them at a wider angle to make the most of the B77W's wider cabin.

Airboy007 wrote

Crew schedules just got released.

Next month, we will see MNL-DXB-KWI-DXB-MNL, MNL-DXB-JED-DXB-MNL, MNL-AUH-DOH-AUH-MNL

Anyways any update on this?

I saw the JED and DOH connectors briefly on GDS slated for December, but PR's current W16 timetable does not show it any more and it no longer appears on GDS as well.

[tigz]

As far as what I've noted with PAL historically on the long haul equipment ,they have far more success with Boeing and takes pride with those aircraft. Personally I'm routing for the 787-10 as its size would fit its market well and the range gives it an extra kick. Perhaps this is Boeings coup in Dubai.

[romantic_guy08]

Anyone have any idea how PH Air Asia got entitlements from PAL to HND even before 5J/2P?

AirAsia prepares to launch direct flights to Tokyo
BusinessCompaniesby Lorenz S. Marasigan - November 2, 2015 0 90
 

BUDGET carrier Philippines AirAsia is planning to launch direct flights to Tokyo, Japan by winter next year, a company official said.

With the airline’s bagging the utilized entitlements previously allocated to Philippine Airlines (PAL), it may now start flying to the premier airport in Japan. But for now, the company will be focusing on developing its route network tin China for the first half of next year.

The Japanese expansion will come in by the second half of 2016.

“We will launch Japan late next year, around winter time. We will focus on our China routes in the first half,” AirAsia Philippines CEO Joy D. Caneba said in an interview.

The carrier of taipan Lucio C. Tan previously held all 14 entitlements to Haneda Airport in Japan, but only half of those were utilized.

“We will fly to Tokyo via Haneda. If I wasn’t able to swing the deal, I might go for Narita,” Caneba said.

[Arianespace]

Probably a misquote again. If not then take PAA announcement as a grain of salt. Probably another PR stunt from its CEO. They do applied for rights just like 5J, but all HND slots were awarded to PAL. Of course they have rights to fly NRT. All their plans are geared towards China, not Japan. To cap everything, the airline is still bleeding in red and their fleet is strained to the max. Japan expansion would be suicide for them.

[Eurest]

Ariane is correct, its another misquote by local media.

I've learned to read what all the local dailies have to say and aggregate the truth as it seems clickbaiting and exaggeration is the name of the game.

The Inquirer seems to have written things more logically
http://business.inquirer.net/201819/air-asia-eyes-japan-flights

She said the carrier was initially targeting to fly to Haneda International Airport, which serves Tokyo. If this does not push through, the carrier will fly to Narita International Airport, she said.

There are no more HND slots to allocate.
PR is now flying 2x daily to HND, and the daytime flight has even been an A330 for the past few days.
NH has been using the midnight flight to connect codeshare pax to the midnight NH LAX flight as well as the midnight UA SFO flight.

Air Asia PH can technically sell MNL-HND, but the actual routing will be MNL-KUL-HND with D7
I'd expect we'd see Air Asia Japan first with NGO-MNL before Air Asia PH with MNL-NRT

The more interesting part of Ms Caneba's press briefing is that they are studying the use of smaller than A320 aircraft
Before D7 became AirAsiaX, they were FlyAsiaExpress using F50s across Borneo

[tigz]

As for PAA on the less than 100 seat routes - I suppose its a revival of the former Zest routes. As you can see, 5j is enjoying a monopoly of turboprop routes. What people didn't buy though are those "Modern Ark" MA-60 China planes and of course as fate would befall, a series of mishaps in Caticlan nailed them. In fairness, that juice airline did venture to the "missionary routes" of PAL before and was a morale booster to those stagnant airports and the folks in the provinces. Well its only good while its new so they until people start to compare. Should Air Asia decide, I would route them to go Q400!

[Eurest]

I think the Chinese were so focused on making the MA60 fly, they forgot to address its landing characteristics as all of the MA60 incidents occured on landing.
It will be interesting to see how the Comac fares

As for the Q400, I'm afraid my bias might show if I discuss its merits , but it will be exciting to see if PR will answer the CebGo expansion by ordering some new built Q400NGs

I'm interested to hear anyone's insights as to what airports could best be served by either the Q400 or ATR72
With Caticlan's runway improvements, won't there be slack on some of ATRs and Q300/400 or 2P when MPH goes A320?
Will there be new routes added from MNL or will we see secondary airports connected?

[tigz]

The Q400 have better performance over-all such as faster rate of climb and higher ceiling at one engine out. Its a prop that behaves like a jet and the nextgenQ have even better cabin noise suppression. I'm not afraid to promote Bombardier to keep the plant in Downsview going and its the only aircraft manufacturing helping out the transportation industry in Ontario. Its amazing how Porter expanded its regional operations just by one aircraft operating out of a runway less than 1500m! To think of, a number of principal class 2 airports in the Philippines don't reach beyond the 1800m length which is the threshold of the A319. As for Caticlan, the Q400 will be more economical to operate than jets from Manila.

[romantic_guy08]

Eurest wrote

Ariane is correct, its another misquote by local media.

I've learned to read what all the local dailies have to say and aggregate the truth as it seems clickbaiting and exaggeration is the name of the game.

The Inquirer seems to have written things more logically
http://business.inquirer.net/201819/air-asia-eyes-japan-flights

She said the carrier was initially targeting to fly to Haneda International Airport, which serves Tokyo. If this does not push through, the carrier will fly to Narita International Airport, she said.

There are no more HND slots to allocate.
PR is now flying 2x daily to HND, and the daytime flight has even been an A330 for the past few days.
NH has been using the midnight flight to connect codeshare pax to the midnight NH LAX flight as well as the midnight UA SFO flight.

Air Asia PH can technically sell MNL-HND, but the actual routing will be MNL-KUL-HND with D7
I'd expect we'd see Air Asia Japan first with NGO-MNL before Air Asia PH with MNL-NRT

The more interesting part of Ms Caneba's press briefing is that they are studying the use of smaller than A320 aircraft
Before D7 became AirAsiaX, they were FlyAsiaExpress using F50s across Borneo

Saw this late yesterday.

So they will still apply for reallocation of rights... that is already moot now though as PR has gone 2x daily to HND.

I wonder how loads are both NRT and HND? and I wonder if the HND ops are cannibalizing NRT.

[romantic_guy08]

tigz wrote

The Q400 have better performance over-all such as faster rate of climb and higher ceiling at one engine out. Its a prop that behaves like a jet and the nextgenQ have even better cabin noise suppression. I'm not afraid to promote Bombardier to keep the plant in Downsview going and its the only aircraft manufacturing helping out the transportation industry in Ontario. Its amazing how Porter expanded its regional operations just by one aircraft operating out of a runway less than 1500m! To think of, a number of principal class 2 airports in the Philippines don't reach beyond the 1800m length which is the threshold of the A319. As for Caticlan, the Q400 will be more economical to operate than jets from Manila.

Q400 may climb and fly faster but it also costs more to operate and maintain compare to the ATR. And in that aspect ATR wins for the finance guys.

[Evodesire]

Speaking of the QQs, wasn't there a rumor way back that PAL Express intends to replace its Q400s with e-jets? What happened to this and do you think e-jets would be a good replacement for the Q4s especially when it comes to inter island operation? I still think inter island would be best serviced by turbo props. E-jets might be a waste of money.

[Eurest]

Since the Q300/400 are only used on very short stage lengths, the Embraers will have a higher DOC
Unless of course PR wants to get some GRU or GIG slots, then buying E-jets would make sense.

As for the Q vs ATRs
The Q has a fuel burn disadvantage because of the 2x more powerful engines.
Cruising at 360kts at FL200 vs 276kts at FL170 makes mission times shorter than the ATR
This is crucial when you're trying to beat the daylight curfew of most secondary airports in the PH.

The faster and higher climb  (on rotations 155kts vs 125kts) also gives better terrain clearance, which affects operational viability in terrain surrounded airfields.

The higher operating ceiling of the Q provides better weather avoidance, in a monsoon prone country like the PH, it is again relevant for dispatch viability.

The ATR has the lower capex and operatings costs, but the Q has a lot of intangibles that make it very apt for the PH. The Q more than makes up for the higher costs with its higher revenue potential from more dispatches, more pax, as well as cargo volume

[tigz]

As what Eurest stated, the Q400 compensates for payload and added rotation which translates to extra revenue. Also the ATRs smaller engines means more work to accelerate hence wear and tear comes sooner than the Q, 5j have had numerous cancellations lately due to aircraft situation and its all catching up and hence the replacements. Again airline mileage vary greatly on their business model so what might work for PAL doesn't work for Cebpac.

[Eurest]

MH is replacing the old angle-flat seats on their A333s with Thompson Vantage XLs
Config is 1-2-1/1-2-2 staggered alternating

The same seats are found on SAS, QF (suite variant), & B6

http://www.businesstraveller.com/asia-pacific/news/mab-introduces-new-business-class-product

[tigz]

So many things fancy on business seats but the single one on this lay-out will be certainly coveted in the bookings. My understanding on upper class seats is that they are all charged one flat rate, but I do wonder if airlines will make an exception for extra extra privacy!

[seven13]

Maiba lang,
Is PR slated to start its polar routes this December? A memo released to cabin crews just recently indicates that PR will be starting polar routes this December (aside from preparing cabin crews to operate polar routes by means of training and radiation awareness).

Didn't PR mention that JFK nonstop wouldn't start until 3Q of 2016 utilizing the polar routing? Are there any other flights currently being flown that will utilize the polar routing? YYZ should be out of the picture as it is served one stop from YVR.

[tigz]

It was my presumption before that PAL was using great circle when PAL started direct MNL-YYZ. I have used AC and CX direct YYZ-HK and monitored the map\live cam to confirm the flight path and its all Northwards to Hudsons Bay and past the Arctic. JFK is further east of YYZ so it should make sense for PAL to be doing this.

[seven13]

It was pointed here that CX uses either westward/eastward (depending on winds) on its way back to HKG. Eurest also suggested a clip on AC's B77L flight YYZ-HKG utilising the polar route.