Airlines in the Philippines

[Eurest]

I think the restriction is why the Island Hopper flight number is UA172, while the connecting MNL-GUM flight is UA184 for the infamous Island Hopper route that a lot of flying afficionados take.
Contrast that to the old DL flight numbers which had the same ones to the US mainland.

The only restriction he told me was that Route 1 for both US or PR carriers are bound to narrowbody ac only.
I was told this is the reason UA is exploring the HNL-MNL option, as they can utilize a widebody B77E instead of the current 738

As for HA, they are no longer a designated route 2 carrier because of as you said, the US DoT's "use it or lose it" policy

As for the DL service, they terminated DL630's NGO-MNL tag on starting Winter 2014/2015.
And the NRT-JFK service became a B77E so DL switched the flight numbers between TPE and MNL. MNL is now 275, and TPE is now 172
MNL though, still gets a B744, while TPE, BKK, and SIN have been downgraded from a B744 to a B763ER
Show that MNL is large enough for DL to still send a B744

It's interesting that around 9:30am, MNL-NRT is served by a DL744, a JL763ER, and an NH763ER.
And for a few weeks in Winter 2015/2016, MNL-NRT will be served by a DL744, a JL763ER, and an NH77E.

[Eurest]

I did something bad, I read the other forums and saw that the A330 cabin reconfiguration was being discussed

I happen to have access to the costs of a certain carrier's A330-300 reconfiguration, with 2-2-2 J,  Y seats with IFE

Per Aircraft costs

Galley Shells (6 each) + Galley Inserts and Food carts - USD 1.65M
Lavatories (8 each) - USD 2.15M
Outboard Partitions (full height) - USD 48,000
Outboard Closet  - USD 65,000
Centerline Closet - USD 95,000
Business Class Seats (38 pcs) - USD 1.95M
Economy Class Seats (262pcs) - USD 1.15M
IFE System package - USD 3.11M

And that's a regional to medium haul configured aircraft with no overhead crew rest

That's easily close to 10M USD per A333, and that does not include the charge by the MRO as well as the other incidentals moving from 3-3-3 to 2-4-2 like:

Add'l wiring looms since the old AC was not wired for IFE, etc
Add'l support where the old area was seats and now is being refitted to hold a cabinet
Headliner reconfiguration for oxygen masks going from 3-3-3 to 2-4-2
Add'l air gaspers, reading lights, etc

Also what if your new seats are 16g seats like CJs, XLS, Citation X and others
You'll need fireblocking and other requirements mandated by STC guidelines

Besides, LTP doesn't have the space yet as the inauguration of the expanded facilities won't be til November

[Evodesire]

I think aside from just the IFE equipment and wiring etc., we also have to consider the cost and weight additions to the power source system. This seems very critical as most aircraft fires are caused by poor electrical system. Reason why JJB is not so keen on having seat back IFEs on both Y and J of PAL's A330s only to be flown for medium haul flights is because the profits won't be able to justify the costs and restrictions incurred. So I guess sticking to wireless IFE for the A321s and A330s was a good decision, well at least not based on armchair CEO's books.

[seven13]

Interesting document there on the Ph-US ASA. Pre SMC era, PR/JJB showed interest in operating Saipan and San Diego. I wonder if they're still pursuing that especially RSA floated the idea of serving ORD and other cities.

I beg to disagree that JJB is not keen on having seatback IFE. When he was interviewed post SMC period, je wanted to transform or revert PAL to a legacy airline to compete with CX and SQ. Yes the A333s are now being flown on midhaul routes but take note,mthese particular aircrafts are also flown to Aussie and Honolulu and Narita (PR432). Viewing it from the financial aspect, it might be goodsince the aircraft is lighter thus less fuel for take off etcetera; however you sacrifice passenger comfort and experience. With a vision to be like CX or SQ, what is seen doesn't seem like going where it should go. Unlike RSA's period, he stated that he doesn't want to compete with CX and SQ so it is understandable to have the current installations.

As JJB said, there is still demand for premium service so I guess the J section could be expanded to few more seats on the A333.

[Evodesire]

During a symposium I attended wherein JJB was the speaker, part of what he brought up was the improved IFE of PAL via wireless IFEs on the A330s and mentioned that the A321s will follow suit on being equipped with InAir. What was clear too was the 777s IFEs will be upgraded to newer models so we may be speaking about EX3s. Nothing negative was mentioned about the 330s present wireless IFE system nor about reconfiguring the seats to have them on the seat back. Well, we don't know in the near future if he may surprise us with something but so far, that's about it.

What he did not like was the mono-class A330s which he mentioned will reconfigure them to bi-class with a lower density than the present bi-class. So maybe we are looking at a 2-4-2 abreast on Y class.

When JJB meant "Philippine Airlines is a legacy carrier and not a low cost carrier", he was talking about the those stupid marketing puns "Book What We Have Here" stuff during the RSA times, mono-class A330s which is similar to that of Cebu Pacific, and other LCC stuff like the seat fabric, an LCC class ticket, and again, the 3-3-3 configuration.

We look forward to the new long range wide body order plus the upcoming 777s, I am pretty sure these will have new seat back IFEs that will compete with other Asian legacy carriers.

[Eurest]

JJB has also mentioned that they are after a level of product differentiation from 5J on routes they both serve. I suspect this pertains to the hard product as the soft product is vastly differentiated already.

I was told that there was quite a load drop as well as negative feedback after introducing the 376 seat A333 to MEL & SYD.
There is quite a price discrepancy amongst 5J and PR on this route despite the similar hard product in Y.
Since the AUS bilaterals were amended leading to increased seats, and 5J reducing its service to 4x weekly to SYD, there is no need to fly a plane with almost 400 seats to maintain PR's hold on the AUS seats allocation.
I suspect when 5J enters HNL, there will also be a need for PR to differentiate its hard product.

If PR decides to start MNL-DME or MNL-IST-FRA (now that the final Fraport hurdle is about to be resolved with the payment), it will need a more aptly configured aircraft as well.

Add the already established fact that the 376 seat A333 also has too few J seats on certain routes like BKK, though I wonder how the recent bombings have affected that, it adds to the onus of reconfiguring some of the mono class A333s

That said, A333 C checks are now scheduled after 24 months, which puts RP-C8782 needing its first C check by October since it was delivered 9.26.2013

[Evodesire]

Well yes I agree with you about the price discrepancy. Only difference between PR and 5J's 330 is that PR has J class. Add a few amenities like charging ports and InAir. I sense and increase in premium class travelers though so it seems PAL is going the right direction.

Honestly, I would be happy if JJB decides to add seat back IFEs on the 330s, have a 2-4-2 seating on Y, and increase J but then again, let's see if the company's number crunchers will find this feasible. Closest things that can happen to the A330s are 2-4-2 seating, increase in J class, and change of seat fabric (present leather is too LCC for me). Wireless IFE might stay.

Another thing that may happen too in the long run is PAL may use their newly ordered 340 replacements to fly Aussie routes too aside from US and Europe, and keep those A330s on ME and regional routes.

Definitely, they will battle it out with 5J on US and EU routes.

Based on my observation though, I have not yet seen a successful LCC flying Europe and US mainland. Not even Scoot, AirAsiaX, Jetstar, are flying routes higher than 10 hours.

[Solblanc]

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/southeast-asian-airline-sector-returns-to-profitability-in-1h2015-but-long-term-challenges-remain-242947

This CAPA article really puts things in perspective. For the past two years, 5J has apparently been more profitable than SQ, and PR has stayed in the black while the rest of the region went to the dogs.

I knew that SQ was having some hard times, but I never imagined that their profit numbers would start becoming comparable to PAL. And SIA is several times the size of PAL, too.

So the lack of seatback IFE clearly did not dissuade enough people from flying PAL.

[Evodesire]

As Arianespace pointed out, those old 90s era gas-guzzlers A340s are a milking cow of PAL. No internet, no individual IFEs in Y, some seats can't recline, etc but yet, they make money. At least the A330s have InAir + charging ports which would not be so bad after all.

Seems like PAL's repositioning as a legacy carrier plus a more careful and conservative approach is working. Well as for 5J, they hold 60% of the domestic market which is actually their bread and butter. I expect this will grow when their interisland services under CebGo would start. The CebGo interisland strategy will work wonders for them.

[romantic_guy08]

Solblanc wrote

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/southeast-asian-airline-sector-returns-to-profitability-in-1h2015-but-long-term-challenges-remain-242947

This CAPA article really puts things in perspective. For the past two years, 5J has apparently been more profitable than SQ, and PR has stayed in the black while the rest of the region went to the dogs.

I knew that SQ was having some hard times, but I never imagined that their profit numbers would start becoming comparable to PAL. And SIA is several times the size of PAL, too.

So the lack of seatback IFE clearly did not dissuade enough people from flying PAL.

And apparently, SQ has been loosing money from the their long haul ops since FY09

"In particular, he highlighted that SIA’s long-haul routes have been almost consistently loss-making since FY09 as its competitors have refined their strategy and successfully established themselves into SIA’s markets."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/distre...8DYmYxBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

[seven13]

On another news:

CEBPAC is set to restart 2 Asian routes - CEBTPE and DVOSIN and start MNLFUK due on 17DEC15

Cebu Pacific Adds 3 Asia Routes from mid-Dec 2015
by JL
Posted at 0400GMT 11SEP15

Cebu Pacific from 17DEC15 is introducing 3 regional routes within Asia, including 2 service resumption. Planned service as follow.

Cebu – Taipei Taoyuan 3 weekly
5J300 CEB2145 – 0025+1TPE 320 246
5J301 TPE0105 – 0345CEB 320 357

5J last operated this route from December 2007 to June 2008

Davao – Singapore 2 weekly
5J715 DVO1735 – 2110SIN 320 47
5J716 SIN2155 – 0140+1DVO 320 47

5J last operated this route from May 2008 to April 2009

Manila – Fukuoka 3 weekly
5J922 MNL1415 – 1855FUK 320 247
5J923 FUK2000 – 2240MNL 320 247

[seven13]

I'm guessing with the "Ghost month" officially ending tomorrow, we can now expect the longhaul fleet order anytime this September. Sunday marks the start of the 8th month of the Lunar calendar and celebrations are resuming left and right.

BTW, PR112 is being scaled back to 2X a week until Winter schedule kicks in. does it show that PR couldn't still grab a sizeable number of pax to justify operating PR112 atleast 4X a week whole year round? I hope CEBLAX starting on 3.2016 will be able to sustain and eventually become a daily service.

[Eurest]

PR could also time their announcement during this year's Dubai Air Show

With EK set to choose between the A359 and B78J for their 50-70 strong short haul fleet, I suppose the losing party could offer some of the slots they "freed" up for the EK RFP to PR
The "losing" party would be inclined to line up orders to create good news for its company, as I suspect  losing out on the EK order could hit shareholder prices negatively.
A collection of smaller orders to offset not getting the EK order could diminish any potential fallout from a failed EK bid, so I would think the loser would be giving out hefty discounts.

The discounts for either the A359 or B789 for PR could be similar to what PR got for the 2012 54 a/c order, in which SMC was able to leverage EU's fear of recession by getting massive pricing discounts which it then used to get advantageous sale&leaseback agreements to finance the sizable order.

There is the possibility that PR could get more than the rumored 8 and go for a 10+5 order for better pricing, as both A359 and more so the B789, have excellent economics for operating on the 3-5 hr regional routes that need the belly space, as well as the potential 7-10 hr Australia routes.
Using either the A359 or B789 for long-haul routes like JFK & LHR as well as medium haul routes like SYD&MEL offer a maximized potential for utilization rates.
As on a potential 24 hour scenario of the aircraft having just completed the 13hr flight from LHR (block times for LHR will be shorter because of the higher operating ceiling as well as faster cruise mach vs the A343), it could then make the 7 hour SYD flight after the standard EDTO 3-4 hour A check.
This would result in PR returning quite a few of the A333s back to lessors, as there would be redundancies.
The number of A359s or B789s could signal if some of the A330s will be reconfigured, or just returned early to lessors  as JJB has mentioned in the past

[Evodesire]

How many A330s are on lease? AFAIK, PAL cannot reconfigure an aircraft under lease

[seven13]

Good points there. The last PR order was made after the Paris Airshow. DAS is too far with 56 days to go! I hope they announce it sooner, getting quite excited!!

If both aircraft can perform on regional routes and medium haul routes, then it's a win situation for PR.  On one hand, PR could leverage both aircraft's performance to further simplify their fleet in the future to just A320/1, A350 or B789 and B777. But, on the other hand, PR needs the current configuration of its A333 if they plan to continue serving RUH, DXB and DMM (with plans to open DOH, KWI and JED in the future) to keep operating costs on these ME routes as low as possible to be able to offer competitive prices.

PR is switching equipment to A340 this coming winter season as it resumes to 7 weekly flight to SYD. The A330 will further be under utilize. I can see HKG PR306 to be upgraded to A330 operations instead of the mix A321/A330 operations. So it proves that there are currently too much A330 in the fleet unless there are a number of routes in the pipeline using the A330.  

[Eurest]

I've seen the sale&leaseback contract on PR's A330 with CIT and it contains no provision preventing cabin modification during the term of the lease as long as their is written consent from Intrepid
I can't say the same for the ones leased to GECAS or DVB or the other ones

Here are the conditions for modifications under the Intrepid contract

“No modification, alteration or addition to or removal from the Aircraft expected to cost over U.S. Dollar
threshold (e.g. US $250,000) or deviation from the Aircraft's original type design or configuration will be
made without the prior written consent of lessor, which consent will not be unreasonably withheld or delayed.
All Modifications incorporated on the Aircraft will be properly documented in the Aircraft Documentation and
be accomplished in accordance with:
-EASA-approved data supported by EASA-approved Repair Design Approval Sheets or its EASA
equivalent or an EASA-approved
- FAA-approved data supported by an FAA Form 8110-3, FAA Form 8100-9 or FAA supplemental
type certificate.
Notwithstanding any other provision of this Lease, no Modification will be made which has the effect of
decreasing the utility or value of the Aircraft or invalidating any warranty applicable to the Aircraft.”

The Cabin folks at LTP have shown me the options for both the 311 and 329 seat reconfiguration of the all-economy A333

The 311 seat version has 32 seats in J and 279 Y seats, this is similar to another Asian carrier's 309 seat A330 except PR's A333s doesn't have a lavatory before L2 so there is space for 2 more of the Equinox 3Ds
They said PR's A333s both have seats further forward than most A330s, as the usual A330 config has a drinks galley after L1 and a lavatory after R1. And a bassinet space for the first mid row
The only modification will be to add a galley where row 38 currently is situated, putting it in line with how the 376 seat version looks like.
Y will be 2-4-2, although Y+ can be an option, it seems PR will forego the US style Y+ of more legroom if it reconfigures to the 311 variant.
Unfortunately it seems traditional seatback IFE is not an option, though PR is considering ZIM Flugsitz new economy seats with tablet holders where an IFE screen would be. It actually looks like the seat has an IFE installed but it's just a tablet in a fancy case that would be hard to remove by the passenger.
QF will install the same seats soon but in a bluish grey scheme


The 329 seat variant keeps the same 9 abreast in Y, 32J config but has Y+.
Basically similar to the 376 seat version but more J seats and Y+ now starts after L2/R2
This is the cheapest option for PR

PR wants to keep either just the 7 376 seats variants, or reconfigure 6 414 into either 311 or 329 and have 13. It will keep 2 in 414 config and either use them for charters or sub lease them

Oh and the A343s will start departing by 4Q 2016 starting with 2 in December (one week apart) and 2 in 2017 and the last 2 in 2018
I've also been told its most likely the A359 with 2 coming in 2017, from possibly Ansett Worldwide, and 6 from Airbus from 2018 onwards.
This means PR's future longhaul fleet is 16 (8 B77W and 8 A359) and there will be no new longhaul destinations served directly (will most likely be via 5th freedom), though PR is hell bent on making LHR and JFK daily.
It seems PR is negotiating for a swap + cash of PR's nightime LHR slots with another Asian carrier's daily nighttime slots as that carrier is decreasing frequencies to LHR but upsizing aircraft.

[seven13]

Was looking which Asian airline is reducing LHR and found out its TG. Switched from B744 to A388 and just becoming daily instead of 14 frequencies a week.

Installing the new seats with an ipad holder is the most sensible and cost efficient to do. The ipad is already available and the InAir and OnAir systems. I do hope they install a galley on door L/R2. If you go around the aircraft, it's really tight. It's really hard to work in its current configuration. Even the bi-class A333, working as R2 galley steward seems really hard. I do hope the legacy A333's configuration will be incorporated to the newer A333s.

Question, is the ZIM Flugsitz also being considered for the 329 variant? If not, PR might just use the current Y+ and move it after door L/R2 and remove the excess seats at the rear.
 

"PR wants to keep either just the 7 376 seats variants, or reconfigure 6 414 into either 311 or 329 and have 13. It will keep 2 in 414 config and either use them for charters or sub lease them" - you mean PR will either have 7 or 13 A333 and is still undecided? They are still having options of not reconfiguring the mono classes and will just return them to the lessors? I do hope they consider doing cabin reconfiguration on the 6 mono classes and let the 378 bi class do middle east operations. According to my friends, the KSA routes are almost full year round unlike the UAE, as mentioned by Arianespace (I think) that KSA is the biggest O/D market. PR will be needing the capacity the 414 currently provides. Unless, PR will launch daily or near to daily flights to RUH and DMM to compensate for the decrease in seats capacity per aircraft per flight.

PR really needs to have a more premium hard product to be able to serve AUS, JP, KR and HNL routes better versus other airlines.

[Evodesire]

JJB strongly said that the mono-class A330s will be reconfigured because and I quote "PAL is a legacy carrier, and not a low cost carrier", perhaps pertaining to Cebu Pacific. How many of the mono-class would be reconfigured. He didn't mention anything.

My guess is he will keep the 376 seater that way to serve the ME routes and reconfigure the mono-class to 311 or 329 seater. Guessing he may add more business class seats and bring back the more comfortable 2-4-2 seating for Aussie, HNL, and other medium haul routes that has a premium market.

[Eurest]

I was told that if PR opts for the 311 version in 8 abreast, since they need new seats, they would opt for tablet friendly ones.
If PR opts for the 329 variant, I was told they would keep the same Weber 5751 seats as is.

As for RUH and DMM's capacity demand, you could always fly 2 frequencies of 376 seaters if you no longer have the 414 seat if required.
How many frequencies has PR used up of its' allocations to KSA points? BTW what happened to JED?

The current reality for PR is that the A321 has replaced the A333 on numerous regional flights as PR is no longer frequency constrained on routes like JPY, while the rest of the regional routes that need belly space of a widebody could always use the longhaul aircraft like before when we saw the B744 on PR300.
Unless PR starts routes like IST, TLV or DME, PR just has too many A333s

[Evodesire]

Seems like changing the seats to the tablet friendly ones may be too costly, but would look nice. Actually, its okay to have wireless IFEs such as InAir plus tablets for rent. A mounting point on the seatback will do lots of help though. Looking down for hours is painful, and holding a tablet up eye level is the same. Holders or hoisting points on the seat back will help a lot.