Airlines In The Philippines IV

[Arianespace]

Solblanc wrote

These routes like ORD... perfect for a 787. Perhaps a 787 can also do MNL-SAN nonstop?

seven13 wrote

Would it be a good idea to launch a second YVR frequency should PR launch SAN, MIA or IAH?

The problem with SAN is not about airplanes but infrastructure. While a 77w could jump to a 5knm journey, a max MTOW heavy plane has no chance of clearing a 2k runway for a 7knm journey back home. A tech stop over HNL or YVR could work, even on A330. But which one has better economics is anyone's guest. You have 5th freedom at YVR and none at HNL.

I personally like the idea of via HNL for PAL to have daily connections with 2-3 onward connections to SAN.

[filipinoavgeek]

Now that the A330 was mentioned, I was wondering: what are your thoughts about the A330-800? I remember there being a guy at A.net who was a big fan of the aircraft and wanted PR to order it, saying it was capable of North America despite being smaller. There was also something about the A330neo not being as in demand as the 787 and the A350, making it easier to get. Others were skeptical, saying that even if it had the range, it didn't have the cargo capacity (making it a nonstarter for PR's purposes). Theoretically, would the A330-800 have been a good fit for PR, particularly for North America, or could the regular A330-900 have sufficed?

[Arianespace]

NO. PAL never considered the -200 for its fleet because it is more into capacity than capability. They did operate the -200 for a short while to cover equipment shortfall. If you looked closely into their fleet they have denser configuration than the rest of their neighbors. Its not by coincidence. Its by sheer design. Taking account the Filipino culture and the target market they have. Filipinos don't come to the Philippines for R and R like westerners do. They come to the Philippines for VFR, bringing with them the multitudes of boxes to give to their extended families.

In 2012 RSA proposed to replace the 330 with the 787s. Long delivery times swayed the company to get the 235t to replaced the 212t. There was no -200s. The intent was clear. It would be the 787 and 77x that does the long haul. Having addressed the short and medium haul requirements RSA prepared the long haulers so the 787 resurfaced again in 2015 only for RSA to be eased out of PAL months later. Then 787 grabs headline again in 2023. In the span of 15 years there was no mention of the -200s and its replacement the -800s, nor the considerations for the bigger -900s. Perhaps that is already a good indication. It can't fly longer. That is the reason why they fly the 359 and the 35k. Which they are actually flying now.

[Solblanc]

Arianespace wrote

NO. PAL never considered the -200 for its fleet because it is more into capacity than capability. They did operate the -200 for a short while to cover equipment shortfall. If you looked closely into their fleet they have denser configuration than the rest of their neighbors. Its not by coincidence. Its by sheer design. Taking account the Filipino culture and the target market they have. Filipinos don't come to the Philippines for R and R like westerners do. They come to the Philippines for VFR, bringing with them the multitudes of boxes to give to their extended families.

In 2012 RSA proposed to replace the 330 with the 787s. Long delivery times swayed the company to get the 235t to replaced the 212t. There was no -200s. The intent was clear. It would be the 787 and 77x that does the long haul. Having addressed the short and medium haul requirements RSA prepared the long haulers so the 787 resurfaced again in 2015 only for RSA to be eased out of PAL months later. Then 787 grabs headline again in 2023. In the span of 15 years there was no mention of the -200s and its replacement the -800s, nor the considerations for the bigger -900s. Perhaps that is already a good indication. It can't fly longer. That is the reason why they fly the 359 and the 35k. Which they are actually flying now.

The ironic thing is, the A330-800 is probably the only plane that can reach MNL from SAN as it can take off at full MTOW on SAN’s runway. Perhaps the 787-9 can also do it at reduced payload. In any case, the A330-800 has no new takers from any airline. Nobody else seems to want or need it

[filipinoavgeek]

Arianespace wrote

NO. PAL never considered the -200 for its fleet because it is more into capacity than capability. They did operate the -200 for a short while to cover equipment shortfall.

You mean the A340-200 right? I don't think PR ever operated the A330-200, unless you're talking about the Wamos wetlease.

[filipinoavgeek]

According to a post on SSC, PR's CEB-GUM service is not doing well, with multiple February flights canceled due to poor loads. It will probably be cut sooner or later, the question is what happened. There's just not enough of a market between Cebu and Guam, is it visas, or is it something else?

[Arianespace]

The route, together with Saipan and Palua, was actually made to spite UA, after connecting CEB to GUM via NRT. There is no love loss between them ever since UA flew the evening flight to SFO. The reason was described in the previous pages.

[Solblanc]

That’s a very expensive means of spiting UA. Which is sad because those islands need better service.

I went off-topic in the other thread; didn’t realize it was the airport thread. The Mideast crisis is showing the perfect opportunity for PAL to reenter europe. If it lasts 4-5 weeks as trump said, it will take a long while for gulf carriers to recover passenger confidence.

On the flipside, the Mideast A330s are now sitting idle and I hope nobody gets any ideas about deploying them to other routes, even as a starter. A month may not be enough to reconfigure, especially with supply chains affected, but perhaps they can reconvert the hybrid back to 8abreast even without a W cabin.

[romantic_guy08]

those mid east A333s are usually deployed to ICN, HKG and other SEA and Asian routes... and they still are now.

[filipinoavgeek]

Solblanc wrote

That’s a very expensive means of spiting UA. Which is sad because those islands need better service.

I've read that it's actually fairly common from people in Guam or Palau to go to the Philippines for things like shopping and healthcare, because of how accessible it is compared to, for example, the mainland US or even Hawaii. It also helps that Guam and Palau have sizable Filipino populations.

[seven13]

Nuttal mentioned opening 7 routes this year with 3 already mentioned: ROR, SPN and was it SEA? 4th destination is ORD. That leaves 3 more. MLE was floated before; of course PR did fly to DEL. Arianespace did mention possible SAN via HNL/YVR and IAH via YVR/HNL. Could a possible return to DRW? I hope PR opens TFU.

If IAH/SAN materializes via HNL, does it make sense to upgauge HNL to the 777 freeing up a triclass 330?


Any guesses on the potential 3 remaining routes?

[filipinoavgeek]

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/260205-5jns26asia
This was actually posted last month but I only saw this today. Interesting times ahead for Cebu Pacific: MNL-CTS is becoming seasonal and will be suspended between June and October. Meanwhile, ILO-SIN is being reduced to 2x weekly from June and is being suspended altogether in September. My guess is that they're facing stiff competition from Scoot, which is doing well enough in Iloilo that they recently upgraded their service to an A320 instead of an E2. I'm also guessing that the PW engine issues are becoming an issue given the frequency adjustments for several of their routes and how Mike said many of their planes are out of commission.

[chidad]

PAL/AA has submitted new filings with the USDOT (www.regulations.gov) as of 3/5/26

PR/AA to add AA code to PR operated flights on MNL-LAX/SFO/JFK/SEA.
PR/AA to add PR code to AA operated flights on SFO-MIA/JFK, LAX-HNL/LAS/MIA/JFK/SFO, SEA-MIA

This is in addition to the exemption filed earlier this month for nonstop MNL-ORD

Good to hear AA finally gets its code on PR flights.  As an Advantage member and a resident of Chicago, this will boost opportunities to use PAL without relegating mileage activity to Mabuhay Miles.  Hopefully this is an indication of stronger ties between the two carriers

[filipinoavgeek]

https://x.com/IshrionA/status/2031843730429194589

As expected, Delta is planning to return to Manila, launching 1x daily on LAX-MNL in Summer 2027.

[seven13]

filipinoavgeek wrote

https://x.com/IshrionA/status/2031843730429194589

As expected, Delta is planning to return to Manila, launching 1x daily on LAX-MNL in Summer 2027.

PR made the earlier move by adding a 3rd rotation 9months ahead. I’m guessing it should go up 21x a week by the time DL starts flying. PR won’t make the same mistake it did with SFO

[ewh1]

Looks like Delta isn’t letting PAL launch ORD without some favorable slots for its LAX-MNL flights.

https://viewfromthewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/delta_reply_to_PAL_ord_service.pdf

Will this be a United 2.0 situation?

[filipinoavgeek]

@Arianespace

Regarding PR's plans to launch ORD, why ORD? Is it for the Filipino population in the Midwest, or is it because they want to get close to AA? If it's the latter, how likely is it that PR will join Oneworld in the near future? They were planning to join many years ago but that fell through, but maybe now it seems it might actually finally be happening?

[Arianespace]

ewh1 wrote

Looks like Delta isn’t letting PAL launch ORD without some favorable slots for its LAX-MNL flights.

https://viewfromthewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/delta_reply_to_PAL_ord_service.pdf

Will this be a United 2.0 situation?

More like it.

Delta—like other U.S. carriers—continues to face significant barriers to
obtaining commercially viable slots, gates,

We know already the answer to this. In fact, that will be part of PAL reply. They were not deprived slots. They simply cannot get the slots they want. And this forum knows of this fact a long time ago if you follow the comments posted here.

[Arianespace]

filipinoavgeek wrote

@Arianespace

Regarding PR's plans to launch ORD, why ORD?

Good question. That is the only route left in the US PAL never managed to come back to since the 1999 bankruptcy. Meaning, it was a legacy route for them supported by large Filipino diaspora.

The greater Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, San Diego, and Chicago metropolitan areas had the largest Filipino immigrant communities. These five metro areas were home to 38 percent of Filipinos in the United States. Filipino immigrants accounted for 8 percent of the total population of the greater Honolulu metropolitan area, more than any other comparable city.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/filipino-immigrants-united-states

[Solblanc]

Arianespace wrote

ewh1 wrote

Looks like Delta isn’t letting PAL launch ORD without some favorable slots for its LAX-MNL flights.

https://viewfromthewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/delta_reply_to_PAL_ord_service.pdf

Will this be a United 2.0 situation?

More like it.

Delta—like other U.S. carriers—continues to face significant barriers to
obtaining commercially viable slots, gates,

We know already the answer to this. In fact, that will be part of PAL reply. They were not deprived slots. They simply cannot get the slots they want. And this forum knows of this fact a long time ago if you follow the comments posted here.

Didn't they give KE their slots? With the KE/Asiana merger, isn't it easy for them to ask KE for their slots back?