Airlines In The Philippines II

[Arianespace]

You may want to look at page 16. Its all there.

[XWB_flyer]

Check it again and made me wonder if they 7774, 7775, 7776 and 7777 will be leaving the fleet in the future not in the immediate term but certainly in the medium term. As for the A359 Reconfiguration being suspended could be a good opportunity to re-evaluated configuration and seating option.

I'm personally a fan of Collins Aerospace Aspire Y seat with 30" pitch but legroom is like 32" maybe PAL will go with 31-32" for 33-34" legroom
https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/1112953830545784834?t=QkreGdiaFOjqXhXBOhxEcQ&s=19

[Eurest]

If PR needs add'l longhaulers, we could see B77W reactivations soon, especially since the ones flying during 2020&21 might be approaching C or D checks
But 9-10 should be enough 'til '25

Northwest summer (Peak US demand from PR) is coming next month, Japan seems to be reopening with a weak Yen being ripe for foreign tourists. The only missing piece is China & fuel prices. If the latter 2 occur, PR would need add'l widebodies.

As for the Collins Y seat, those 3 unallocated ex-Aeroflot 359 @316 seats I think have those as their Y seats. But PR didn't seem to have a sniff, seems AI is to take the 5 (+2 QR from delamination fiasco)

I really don't see PR widebody RFP until late 2023 or '24 and deals closed around 2025, more realistic is 2028-2030
But Airbus did increase A330NEO production January this year
AND lost the bulk of its orders for the program
So Toulouse will price it aggressively or buyback CEOs
TPAC 7200nmi range + history w/ a similar sized AC + CTR + parts commonality + CEO legacy operator

But the last time PR went into receivership,
it was the 6 from the cancelled B744 that turned into B77W plus an add'l 2 then even more
Then 2012 was new A333CEOs
So for a while before A359 after retiring A343s & B744, it was just A333CEOs & B77W as the widebody fleet.
Even during the 90s, A333s & A343s were fairly similar, esp with the CF6.
So despite being 3 on paper, they essentially had 2 widebody types. (No I don't consider the MD11 wet lease since they were interim)

So I really don't think PR wants the complexity of 3 widebody types, just 2 with a 100pax difference in size

[XWB_flyer]

From a on-board product point of view it would be easier to just offer two classes of travel Business class and Economy class especially on short-to-medium haul flight while Premium Economy is better for long-haul market. However the same can't be said from revenue point of view with ECY fare are under pressure from LCC for short-haul and ME carriers (mainly TK and QR) in the long-haul network mainly with there fares and how well regarded they are both from word of mouth and marketing with those factors many network airlines particularly in the US, Europe, Oceania and Asia decided to roll-out premium economy on there long-haul aircraft as a middle offering between J and Y . Even one of the ME carries EK is introducing PE. However its only available on the newer A380-800 at this time but will soon be available on either there B777-300ER in the near future.

The main problem with PAL PECY is its limited availability only six A330  and the two A350 have them onboard meanwhile the B77W the largest number of aircraft in the long-haul fleet dose not which limits its availability in PAL long-haul network. Another would be cost to Re-configured the B777 could cuase to much now while at the same time reduces the number of ECY although this could also be an opportunity to added more seats to make up for loss capacity a double edged sword. Third is diffraction and whether its worth PAL market are mainly Friends and Relatives visiting the country or those wanting to fly direct they may either not know what PECY and what benefit are compared to regular ECY or see it as just regular Y seat with extra-legroom like on domestic rather then a seperate class those who opt to fly directly are more likely to fly in BCL then ECY and PECY. So the question who is it amind at then? Last is market I'm curious about there load factors pre-pandemic 2017-2020 especially on the A330 and A350 which is missing data I imagine on longer flights 8+ hours like MNL to HNL its probably much higher then on short regional flights like MNL to SIN while the A321-200 only have two classes though passenger can still tell the former Y+ seat with the different seat covers.

So with that where those PAL go now? I have 2 seperate suggestions if they decided to canned PECY and focus on just BCL and ECY it could marketing easier and improve product consistency I'd go as far to offer Business on international and a select domestic route mainly big cities like CEB and DVO while the rest of the network just Economy. On the other hand if the decided to keep PECY first will be refurbising the Boeing 777-300ER by adding W while adding regular Y to maintain a high capacity seats 356-368 slightly reduced legroom to just 32" or reduced the number of BCL when adding PECY and more Y seat to boost capacity further to 400+ same for the A350-900 300+ seats maybe even 316 while reducing J seats. As for the A330 I think there better suited being duel class for both short-to-medium haul. But for long-haul maybe just have handful with PECY 5+ for the A330-900neo and keep it three rows in 7 abreast for 21 seats.

[Arianespace]

Well, this seems to confirm everyone's observation all along about B789 being the better plane going to America. Interestingly the date when it was uploaded. Very timely to this discussion about SFO/LAX and the 13hr flight that goes with it.

[Eurest]

Cabin refurbishing the B77W would mean keeping it for quite sometime, as its quite a capital expenditure  and needs quite a bit of forward planning (6 years-ish) & planning it around a D check.

You'll change:
IFE, Galley (ovens, carts, coffee machine, etc), Lavs (a new CR esp for J in PH parlance)
Seats & Config (Pax & Crew), in seat power (B77W might go for higher amp USB slots along with the power slot)
Lighting (Boeing Sky?), new overhead bins, Pax O2 & Emergency lighting to match the new seating
Cabin Management System (comp to handle the new features)
The usual D check replacements like Curtains, Carpets, etc

As for the A350, the Vantage XLs max out at 30 seats, so you'll need a newer designed one to for the 32 (L1 to L2 in a direct aisle access) And Toulouse is strict with 4 abreast J for LH/ULH A350, 6 abreast J is for medium haul config. Most 1-2-1 J A359's have 28-32J, so to go 313 or 316 might be difficult with an 8 abreast PY will be difficult with the galley requirements for LH/ULH

US3 carriers like DL do carry Y+ and PY, but they don't have the density need that PR seems to
Perhaps the DL A339 might be somehow close to your ideal longhaul A339 for PR

But you are onto something, premium leisure travel post-pandemic is driving demand, so PY does have a reason to be considered.

Lift.Aero seems to be popular around the region, you might want to check them out for interior inspiration as they did PR's last 12 seat designs, 5J A339 & CI refurb. If they're doing a 13th project for PR, it will be very,very interesting won't it?

[XWB_flyer]

Speaking of the Dreamliner LH first B787-9 was just rolled-out of the paint shop recently there Ex-Hainan frames so probably for a quick delivery.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/lufthansa-boeing-787-roll-out/amp/

I kind of wonder how much those PAL follow LH when it comes to fleet planning? The B787-9 could be used to sustain secondary hubs like CEB-LAX or new routes from MNL like SEA or SAN. Which free the A350-900 for high demand or east coast routes out of MNL I also suspect GE will probably supply the engines since they also provided founds to PAL during the C11 processing

[XWB_flyer]

Eurest wrote

As for the A350, the Vantage XLs max out at 30 seats, so you'll need a newer designed one to for the 32 (L1 to L2 in a direct aisle access) And Toulouse is strict with 4 abreast J for LH/ULH A350, 6 abreast J is for medium haul config. Most 1-2-1 J A359's have 28-32J, so to go 313 or 316 might be difficult with an 8 abreast PY will be difficult with the galley requirements for LH/ULH

US3 carriers like DL do carry Y+ and PY, but they don't have the density need that PR seems to
Perhaps the DL A339 might be somehow close to your ideal longhaul A339 for PR

But you are onto something, premium leisure travel post-pandemic is driving demand, so PY does have a reason to be considered.

Lift.Aero seems to be popular around the region, you might want to check them out for interior inspiration as they did PR's last 12 seat designs, 5J A339 & CI refurb. If they're doing a 13th project for PR, it will be very,very interesting won't it?

The closes configuration for PAL  proposed 313 seats is Air China which as a total capacity of 312 seats (32 Business; 24 Premium Economy; 256 Economy) which can be seen below

https://www.seatmaestro.com/airplanes-seat-maps/air-china-airbus-a350-900/

What is intresting is the mini galley at Doors 3 which is similar to PAL could be 15 rows on each side of the windows and just 14 on the middel.

Between doors 2 & 3 there are 16 rows in total (3 PECY in a 2-4-2 layout for 24 seats and 14 rows for the regular Economy 3-3-3 layout)

Business Class between Doors 1 & 2 have 8 rows for a total of 32 seats the difference is PAL has two lavatories between doors 1 while CI has only 1 before door 1 and behind the cockpit.

[Eurest]

The PR A350 manages 30 seats for J with a staggered Thompson Vantage XLs (1st version of the upgraded Vantage) Row 1 only exists as middle seats. Old version w/21-22 wide VS latest with 23-24" & even 26" on wider installs
While the CA manages 32 with a herringbone Recaro CL6720 (2020 finalized) aligned Row 11-18
78 vs 60" pitch
CA also uses closets instead of PR's Lavs (has plumbing&power) past L1/R1

So the primary difference I see is 2 more J seats and 15 more Y seats for CA, though their Y pitch is 31-32, where PR goes 32 for all
Adding 2 more rows for PR would mean adjusting overhead O2 tanks, AC vents & pax lighting & then seat wiring for power plus a config update on the CMS
Thus, the initial reports I had of the 313 merely deleting PY for Y+ as it was the cost-effective option to go from 296 to 313 seats (only first 4 rows after L2/R2 would really change)

As for the B789 vs A339, it is prudent to wait for the coming Boeing revamp (787 deliveries, &737-7/10 certification then finally the B777-8/9) before making comparisons
As I said before, the Dreamliner program is inline for an upgrade
The B777 program started w/ 200/300/200ER classics
Next were the gen2 200LR/300ER
then re-engined to the 8/9
A 21-22% range increase from 777 Classic to Gen2 777s
Even a lowly 10% range increase would make Gen2 787 quite capable & attractive options (PR would be even more distinct from 5J with Dreamliners VS A339s)

NA Routes expansion would be more pertinent than aircraft, YVR seems to be getting thinner, and might be primed for a new 5th freedom point once Siberian airspace is online again.
And if YVR is thin, perhaps a new Pacific Northwest point like SEA
Considering the combo of JFK/YYZ outlived LHR, ORD,IAH/DFW, MIA/MCO/TPA might be coming soon

[XWB_flyer]

Eurest wrote

The PR A350 manages 30 seats for J with a staggered Thompson Vantage XLs (1st version of the upgraded Vantage) Row 1 only exists as middle seats. Old version w/21-22 wide VS latest with 23-24" & even 26" on wider installs
While the CA manages 32 with a herringbone Recaro CL6720 (2020 finalized) aligned Row 11-18
78 vs 60" pitch
CA also uses closets instead of PR's Lavs (has plumbing&power) past L1/R1

So the primary difference I see is 2 more J seats and 15 more Y seats for CA, though their Y pitch is 31-32, where PR goes 32 for all
Adding 2 more rows for PR would mean adjusting overhead O2 tanks, AC vents & pax lighting & then seat wiring for power plus a config update on the CMS Thus, the initial reports I had of the 313 merely deleting PY for Y+ as it was the cost-effective option to go from 296 to 313 seats (only first 4 rows after L2/R2 would really change)

The amount of changes that need to be done just to added two more rows of Y is fascinating considering the amount of work that needed to be done it also makes me wonder if the $$$ could be better spent on there B777-300ER instead especially the first 6 aircraft (7772 to 7777)? Either by installing new seats like the newer B77W (7778 to 7782) or introducing a completely new cabin interior and seats?

Anyways on another topic its kind of odd that PAL A321neo doesn't feature Y+ while the A321ceo do but only available on domestic routes and not on international while the seat are available for regular paying passengers.

[peterpiloto]

Looks like it’s back to 777s for PAL112 & 113 as 775 is back in service from storage. Flew as PAL116 on May 29.

[Arianespace]

Not for long. 775 was taken back to service because 777 is up for maintenance. Their rotation for long haul is really tight. Meanwhile, almost all 21N are flying except for i think 32, which by the latest schedule they have will be back to service soon.

[XWB_flyer]

Arianespace wrote

Not for long. 775 was taken back to service because 777 is up for maintenance. Their rotation for long haul is really tight. Meanwhile, almost all 21N are flying except for i think 32, which by the latest schedule they have will be back to service soon.

I wonder if PAL will used the opportunity to refurbished 7777 cabin interior? Although its unlikely considering there has been no word press release from OEM for contracts and PAL themselves at this time

[Arianespace]

Not bad. I say it was impressive.

Remember I was telling you about the A333 doing cargo runs to CAN without Pax. I can see very clearly now that they shall take the cargo variant of this bird pretty soon.
 

Philippine Airlines (PAL) cargo revenues soared 72 percent to P4.58 billion ($88.59 million) in the first quarter of 2022 as the economy starts to recover, the flag carrier announced in its recent Cargo Awards Night at the Century Park Hotel.

Coming soon after a 59 percent increase in PAL’s cargo business to P15.02 billion in 2021 from P9.43 billion in 2020, the growth indeed indicates a recovering economy and improving business climate, PAL stated.

https://mb.com.ph/2022/06/01/pal-cargo-revenues-up-72-to-p4-6-b/

[seven13]

Used to be B777 cabin and cargo then switched to A330 on pure cargo hold only. It’s also doing SZX once a week with cabin and some XMN as well with cabin.

[XWB_flyer]

Could this mean PAL will converted one of there A330-300 to a pure freighter? Though I think converting an older A330-300 would be better rather than using the current fleet also could used the smaller A330-200 for P2F conversion. For domestic I think the A321 would be the best candidate although I've seen PAL used the Pax A320 for dedicated freight flight especially between MNL-GES with stops at either TAG or BXU.

[Eurest]

seven13 wrote

Used to be B777 cabin and cargo then switched to A330 on pure cargo hold only. It’s also doing SZX once a week with cabin and some XMN as well with cabin.

Did they remove aft seats and use a net as divider or placed cargo in specific uniform boxes, place them on the seats and overhead bins and then cover the seats in a thick plastic/tarpaulin.

It was interesting to see how each airline refitted to cargo, and then evolved to make it more efficient.

XWB_flyer wrote

The amount of changes that need to be done just to added two more rows of Y is fascinating considering the amount of work that needed to be done it also makes me wonder if the $$$ could be better spent on there B777-300ER instead especially the first 6 aircraft (7772 to 7777)? Either by installing new seats like the newer B77W (7778 to 7782) or introducing a completely new cabin interior and seats?

Anyways on another topic its kind of odd that PAL A321neo doesn't feature Y+ while the A321ceo do but only available on domestic routes and not on international while the seat are available for regular paying passengers.
Fr

For a long-haul widebody cabin refurbishment, it can cost 6 digits USD / aircraft, but accounting wise you also have to consider the length of time the AC is not making money. The first 2 usually take the longest as the refurbisher gets familiar with the workflow.

PR's B77W can be refurbished minimally by reducing the pitch of the Aura Enhanced seats and rebrand them as Premium Eco since they are high density J seats
Expectations, especially on the Lounges at certain airports, will be reduced as they are now expecting PREMIUM economy instead of kinda looks&feels like First class but isnt really Business class
Then introduce the old 9 abreast (on B7W) Y as Y+ (with the old J, new PY catering)

So Mabuhay will be old J but marketed as really premium eco
A new Fiesta Primera class perhaps as Y+

Old J esp. non-suite type isn't as profitable. If workers are going remote for 2 days a week, what more for Business travel. I think most multinational businesses learned to live with International remote meetings especially with the cost-benefit of the savings you get from not having to maintain a retainer
Even for narrowbodies, full-flat and direct-aisle seems to be the standard for J
Why keep-up with the Joneses? Top 3 Asian carrier? Why not Top 3 most profitable Global carrier?

Most airlines are going J less on certain a/c, J seems to going the way of F class.
For PR, having to compete with an LCC in 5J, then the standards of SQ, NH and CX up front has been difficult.
It's time to play by your own rules & be truly dynamic.
High density Biz class? Nope, it's extremely Premium Economy. You can now even restrict Lounge to those with Miles status. Luggage allotment flexible as well. Extremely aggressive pricing though.
Premium Economy? Yes, but only just 1 seat less dense than economy with better food, legroom and shoulder space.
Old Economy is still the same.

[XWB_flyer]

Eurest wrote

Old J esp. non-suite type isn't as profitable. If workers are going remote for 2 days a week, what more for Business travel. I think most multinational businesses learned to live with International remote meetings especially with the cost-benefit of the savings you get from not having to maintain a retainer
Even for narrowbodies, full-flat and direct-aisle seems to be the standard for J
Why keep-up with the Joneses? Top 3 Asian carrier? Why not Top 3 most profitable Global carrier?

Most airlines are going J less on certain a/c, J seems to going the way of F class.
For PR, having to compete with an LCC in 5J, then the standards of SQ, NH and CX up front has been difficult.
It's time to play by your own rules & be truly dynamic.
High density Biz class? Nope, it's extremely Premium Economy. You can now even restrict Lounge to those with Miles status. Luggage allotment flexible as well. Extremely aggressive pricing though.
Premium Economy? Yes, but only just 1 seat less dense than economy with better food, legroom and shoulder space.
Old Economy is still the same.

Thinking about it PAL  could market there old recliner on there A321ceo and SR into Premium Economy which could be lucrative for leisure or domestic destinations 12 seats in three rows with a 2-2 confgiuration. They did this previously on there A320-200 pre-pandemic so I'd imagine it wouldn't be to difficult to do this on there A321! Once delivery of there A321neo resume it could be a good opportunity to swapped seat for full lie-flat same for the A321neo or go with a new design like the VantageSolo or even the Classical Vantage which is more efficient and could be used either for region flights in asia or oceana and even india.

https://thompsonaero.com/seating-range/vantagesolo/

[Arianespace]

Eurest wrote

Used to be B777 cabin and cargo then switched to A330 on pure cargo hold only. It’s also doing SZX once a week with cabin and some XMN as well with cabin.

Did they remove aft seats and use a net as divider or placed cargo in specific uniform boxes, place them on the seats and overhead bins and then cover the seats in a thick plastic/tarpaulin.

It was interesting to see how each airline refitted to cargo, and then evolved to make it more efficient.

[AnonBoy]

The boxes are placed on top of the seats, and secured with a net. PR secured a special permit to do this regularly, even got approval for bigger dimensions to be accommodated in the cabin. Down side, the 777s seats have several broken and taped over arm rests because of this.