Airlines in the Philippines

[Evodesire]

Sorry for my ignorance but with the flooding of market from PAL utilizing those 757s, you mean 5J's SYD flights may lead to losses? So basically, what we are seeing here is PAL trying to protect its long haul by finding ways and means for 5J to incur losses on the same long haul routes? Trying to decipher RSA's strategies here. Seems like 5J is aggressive on its long haul expansion but RSA on the other hand got a handful of strategies on order for 5J not to prosper on PAL's bread and butter.

[romantic_guy08]

Evodesire wrote

Sorry for my ignorance but with the flooding of market from PAL utilizing those 757s, you mean 5J's SYD flights may lead to losses? So basically, what we are seeing here is PAL trying to protect its long haul by finding ways and means for 5J to incur losses on the same long haul routes? Trying to decipher RSA's strategies here. Seems like 5J is aggressive on its long haul expansion but RSA on the other hand got a handful of strategies on order for 5J not to prosper on PAL's bread and butter.

i think what Arianespace implies is that, with PR launching flights to other cities in AU, they are effectively cutting off additional pax from connecting through SYD... with direct flights, those flying to MNL would no longer need to connect through SYD and fly direct instead.... leaving 5J with purely O/D traffic to SYD.. plus since 5J is not an IATA member, you cant book through tix on them...

[Arianespace]

That is correct. Introducing 1200 seats a week to SYD alone will make haywire for other airlines other than PR and QF.

I must also point out that there are plenty of passengers from SYD connecting either in SIN or KUL going to MNL and vice versa. I have a few friends doing that. They say its way much cheaper than flying direct. More like trying OZ or KA via ICN on the way to the States. With the same price offered by 5J what incentives would you have with the one stop connection when 5J services can fly you direct?

I am however skeptical if 5J can make Oz to China, Korea connections work. Not with a constrained airport.

But then lets see again if I'm proven wrong.

[swahi]

Regarding passengers' rights, i have a relative whose pal flight just got diverted to clark due to bad weather at naia. They are still waiting at clark for the go signal to fly back to manila. I dont see in the list on the very first post what their rights are in this case. So far, they have water. Are they entitled to food as well?

[Eurest]

I echo the sentiment that it will be SQ, MH and CX that will suffer from PR and 5J's increased presence in Australia as opposed to QF, PR and 5J cannibalizing each other's loads.

Just look at what happened in the Middle East, CX had to drastically alter it's Middle East network because it suffered greatly after the migrant workers shifted to PR, and eventually 5J after several months.
SQ will probably be the most affected by this, similar to how they lost out on EU connecting traffic when the ME3 increased their capacity.

It will be interesting to see if either PR or 5J can tap into the China-Australia connecting traffic, which is currently a cash cow for MH & SQ.

[romantic_guy08]

Eurest wrote

I echo the sentiment that it will be SQ, MH and CX that will suffer from PR and 5J's increased presence in Australia as opposed to QF, PR and 5J cannibalizing each other's loads.

Just look at what happened in the Middle East, CX had to drastically alter it's Middle East network because it suffered greatly after the migrant workers shifted to PR, and eventually 5J after several months.
SQ will probably be the most affected by this, similar to how they lost out on EU connecting traffic when the ME3 increased their capacity.

It will be interesting to see if either PR or 5J can tap into the China-Australia connecting traffic, which is currently a cash cow for MH & SQ.

the late afternoon arrival of the PR AU (SYD/MEL and BNE/DRW) flights will only connect to CAN, HKG (2 flights) and XMN... schedule is not optimized for connection to PEK and PVG...

anyways, I wonder if the increase presence of PR in other cities in the AU can offset, if, in anyway, 5J's entry to SYD will affect them...

[seven13]

Eurest wrote

I echo the sentiment that it will be SQ, MH and CX that will suffer from PR and 5J's increased presence in Australia as opposed to QF, PR and 5J cannibalizing each other's loads.

Just look at what happened in the Middle East, CX had to drastically alter it's Middle East network because it suffered greatly after the migrant workers shifted to PR, and eventually 5J after several months.
SQ will probably be the most affected by this, similar to how they lost out on EU connecting traffic when the ME3 increased their capacity.

It will be interesting to see if either PR or 5J can tap into the China-Australia connecting traffic, which is currently a cash cow for MH & SQ.

It can connect one-way CH-AU with PR337 from PVG arriving at 1940H and PR359 from PEK at 1745H. It can connect to other longhaul flights such as LAX/SFO/BNE/SYD/MEL and DPS meanwhile AU-CH can only connect conveniently to PR382 to CAN. Meanwhile PR331 can connect to PR104 conveniently; a little time constraint to connect to PR102/PR221/PR209/PR211 if the earlier flight experiences delay which is a common thing for China flights.

[Arianespace]

swahi wrote

Regarding passengers' rights, i have a relative whose pal flight just got diverted to clark due to bad weather at naia. They are still waiting at clark for the go signal to fly back to manila. I dont see in the list on the very first post what their rights are in this case. So far, they have water. Are they entitled to food as well?

For all intents and purposes, diversionary flights caused by weather disturbances is still considered continuation flight so basically passenger is entitled to the same amenities as if the airline is still on the air.

If you are however on board no frills airline expect them without. Food compliment will be available when you are stranded for 5 hours on the ground. Everything else is goodwill. As to compensation issues, not the fault of airlines. So if you took travel insurance they will probably pay for that inconvenience. That really is what travel insurance is there for. To cover untoward inconvenience you may suffer out of extraordinary flights.

[Evodesire]

What I do see here too is PR would be able to work their kangaroo route better if they would be offering flights directly from SYD, BNE, MEL, and CGK. PAL to dump in more seats and more frequencies so interconnecting via MNL wouldn't be much of a hassle.

[romantic_guy08]

This confirms that PR got all 7 additional flight entitlements bringing to 14 their rights to Canada...

Regulator approves add'l Canada flights for PAL, flag carrier designation for Cebu Pacific
By: Darwin G. Amojelar, InterAksyon.com
August 26, 2014 5:04 PM


MANILA - The Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) has approved the request of Philippine Airlines (PAL) to add flights to Canada.

Wyrlou Samodio, CAB legal division head, said its board last week approved the application of PAL for an additional 7 weekly flights to Canada.

At present, PAL flies to and from Canada 7 times a week.

The flag carrier requested the additional seat entitlements due to the rising number of Filipino-Canadians who visit the Philippines and of Filipinos moving to Canada.

Samodio said the CAB board also approved the request of Cebu Pacific to be designated as official Philippine carrier to Canada.

"We have as yet no frequency allocations to Canada, even as we got designated as an official carrier," Jorenz Tanada, spokesperson of Cebu Pacific, said in a text message.

Tanada had said the Filipino community in Canada has grown significantly in the last 10 years.

"We look forward to offering CEB's low cost services to Filipinos in Canada and their families back home," he said.

The budget airline last yearbegan long-haul flights between Manila and Dubai. Cebu Pacific uses its Airbus A300-330 aircraft for its first 9-hour direct flight.

Last May, the Philippines and Canada agreed to amend their air service agreement (ASA), which was last revised in December 2008.

The new agreement increased the frequency entitlement for each side from 7 flights a week to14.

According Canada’s Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander, his county issued more than 47,000 visitor visas to Filipinos in 2013.

Nearly 30,000 Filipinos became permanent residents of Canada, making the Philippines the third top source-country for immigrants.

In addition, more than 650,000 Canadian residents can trace their ancestry to the Philippines. Data from the Department of Tourism show that visitors from Canada grew by 12.5 percent to 28,506 arrivals in the first two months of the year.

[seven13]

Evodesire wrote

What I do see here too is PR would be able to work their kangaroo route better if they would be offering flights directly from SYD, BNE, MEL, and CGK. PAL to dump in more seats and more frequencies so interconnecting via MNL wouldn't be much of a hassle.

Sadly I dont see PR adjusting their CH flights nor AU flights to fit to one another bothways to make easy transfers. Increasing CH flights seems out of the question because loads tent to fluctuate as well (excpet for Shanghai where loads are on the upper half of an A320 during lean months and can actually fill a 747 on peak months).

With XMN, 95% of pax are o/d. With PEK, loads tend to fluctuate as well. From a full A320 to a fourth of its capacity during lean months. I heard the red eye 398/399 won't be reinstated this winter schedule (anything can still change though).

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Tomorrow is suppose to be the announcement of who will buy whom. Why do feel like there isn't much to wait about. It seems like both parties are mum on the management rights. Any here who thinks otherwise?

[Arianespace]

I did tell the forum that it is going to PAL way before it is announced officially.

If I may add, unlike the ME carriers complaint to Canada's DOT ours is purely fuelled by O&D traffic.

[Arianespace]

Here is my take on the future of PAL.

If LT manages to raise the money asked by SMC, it would be harder for LT Group to finance future acquisitions of wide body fleets. The company would suffer some cash flow problems for the next 10 years or so.

If SMC buys out LTG it will still have a $4billion war chest at its disposal to buy new widebodies we all desire. That war chest is still intact notwitstanding a billion investment at PAL and another billion projects they have. Kinda make you think where did they get all the money from? Well, like major multinational companies, they also have a friend. His name is Bond. James Bond.

[romantic_guy08]

Arianespace wrote

I did tell the forum that it is going to PAL way before it is announced officially.

If I may add, unlike the ME carriers complaint to Canada's DOT ours is purely fuelled by O&D traffic.

Yes you did....

And we had that short discussion here on why CAB will give those additional rights to PR...

[Eurest]

Is 3439 in Xiamen for painting finally after all these months in white?

It's interesting to see 8763 already doing KIX while SIN and PVG are purportedly going with the 878* series

[romantic_guy08]

And PR will have to stops its codeshare flight with Emirates to DXB...

Regulator rules against extension of PAL's codeshare agreement with Emirates

MANILA - Philippine Airlines (PAL) may stop selling tickets to Dubai after the regulator rejected its code sharing agreement with Emirates Airlines.

Civil Aeronautics Bureau (CAB) legal division head Wyrlou Samodio today told reporters that its board last week denied the extension of the code sharing agreement between PAL and Emirates.

The decision stems from the Philippine flag carrier's failure to use its entitlements to Dubai.

Under a codeshare agreement, the two airlines are sharing the same flight and a seat can be purchased on each airline's designator and flight number, which is operated by only one of cooperating parties.

Samodio said CAB is willing to reallocate the Dubai flight entitlements assigned to PAL if another Philippine carrier wants to apply for those entitlements.

PAL maintains 14 weekly flights for this route under a codeshare arrangement after it stopped its direct flights to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) in 1998.

Sought for comment, Jorenz Tanada, spokesperson of Cebu Pacific, said the airline requested CAB to disallow the extension of a codeshare agreement between PAL and Emirates.

"Said agreement involves frequencies between Manila and Dubai that are meant for operation by Philippine carriers and yet are currently operated by Emirates," Tanada said.

The budget airline last year began long-haul flights between Manila and Dubai. Cebu Pacific uses its Airbus A300-330 aircraft for its first 9-hour direct flight.

At present, there are 700,000 Filipinos in the UAE, the fourth largest concentration of overseas Filipino workers (OFWs).

[seven13]

Eurest wrote

Is 3439 in Xiamen for painting finally after all these months in white?

It's interesting to see 8763 already doing KIX while SIN and PVG are purportedly going with the 878* series

Yup! 3439 is in XMN for painting.
Monoclass service will start on 26th of oct for PVG. It's quite interesting that PR upgraded its 338 (0630h and 1430h arr in MNL) this coming winter season and not 336 (1225h dep and 2040h arr in MNL) while last winter season 338 uses an A320 and A330 for 336. I guess they're pulling the transit pax to fly 338 to connect conveniently on both legs to US and Canada plus Bali and Singapore.
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Does anybody here think that PR would immediately be using its new entitlements to Canada? What time do you think will the flight depart? In the same time bracket of PR112?

[romantic_guy08]

A B77W operated to LHR today, is this a one-time thing only? YVR terminator flights will be downgraded to an A343 for two weeks in Sept...

[Arianespace]

seven13 wrote

BTW, 2P cabin crew are undergoing business class training. I wonder what new set up will be introduced.

I think this question is answered now.

I expected this decision forthcoming since 2013. It took CAB 1 year to decide and another codeshare made. The decision is right. Actually PAL was caught red handed on this one when it should have flown last year. Instead it flew GAP. The situation now is either PAL will fly DXB or lose the 7 slots.

[Arianespace]

seven13 wrote

Does anybody here think that PR would immediately be using its new entitlements to Canada? What time do you think will the flight depart? In the same time bracket of PR112?

Spot on. Definitely morning. Last time I was told some months ago, JFK and ORD are also stamp on AM departure. I think this is all via YVR. I don't know however if they got the landing slot on the opposite side of the pond to their desired time.

I expect them to be loaded in the winter schedule. And suddenly their fleet is not that many anymore.