Airlines in the Philippines

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
Locked 1993 messages Options
1 ... 55565758596061 ... 100
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

ASEAN open skies

Arianespace
Administrator
This post was updated on .
Correct. But EU-SAM also started their open skies that way. The first framework agreement was truly different from the latest protocol that we are seeing now. We are just following in that direction.

So the answer is no at this time. Probably in the third phase if we should come to that. Please take note also that one of the next hurdle is to sell government controlling shares of airlines to private entities. This is where our advantage lies. TG, SQ, MH and VN happens to be all government enterprises. Well, we should be heading in that direction sooner had not the 1997 crisis set in. But in more ways than one, our airlines is more competitive than those airlines.

By the way, the Philippines already opened its sky since 2002. But no airline succeeded from operating at any of the protocol airports. Protocol 6 and 7 was just the next step. Even that we have plenty of reservations considering the failure of the previous protocols, particularly speaking about our own sub region.
Making Sense
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: ASEAN open skies

tigz
Yup, in paper seems good, in reality not quite. BIMP-EAGA is a classic example back then early 2000s; the likes of Asian Spirit out of Zamboanga to Sandakan and Bouraq(indonesia) plying Davao, Gensan to manado. The traffic aint there. I don't know now with the fragile airline business if those routes can jump-start!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

ASEAN open skies

Arianespace
Administrator
Actually, it mirrors what in FACT happens to most of the EU airports. Good for the hub but bad for the rest.

So no matter how you sell DVO, GES or ZAM if the market isn't there, it is not there. Even CRK and CEB can't be sold in droves. Sell MNL and everything comes. That's what the 6 and 7 protocol is all about. Sadly though, the slots aren't unlimited.
Making Sense
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: ASEAN open skies

Solblanc

There really is no point in opening up Manila if there are no slots available. I guess that we could politically claim that we are all for ASEAN connectivity, but in practice, we've still shut out the other carriers.

MNL is one stopover that will make US routes viable for ASEAN carriers. I don't necessarily agree that we should have opened this up at this stage. But oh well, what is done is done.

What is interesting is what's happening in the EU front. The EU is actually preparing the next step in fighting the gulf carriers. They've noted that the gulf carriers have the natural advantage in EU-SEA traffic. That's one of the major factors why EU and SEA carriers (save for PAL) have been cutting down routes in the past few years. So now, the EU is initiating a full EU-ASEAN ASA. It's envisioned to channel EU-SEA traffic back through EU and SEA carriers, and away from the Gulf. But only time will tell if it can actually be negotiated, and even more time to tell if it'll actually work.

In the meantime, PH is quietly fixing it's ASAs with the EU.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: ASEAN open skies

Eurest
Are there any ASEAN routes that PR has maximized their allotted seats or frequencies?
It's 5J that has maxed out on most if not all right?

Airbus has a prime opportunity then to offer 5J the A330 regional, allowing for more seats without having to find new NAIA slots
The 240pax A321NEO ACF might suffice for certain routes, but surely the 400 seat A330R would be better as we already see 5J successfully deploy their A330s to routes like SIN.
Losing 36 seats but gaining 23% in terms of efficiency and cheaper landing, navigation and airport fees might make the A330R very attractive for 5J

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for ASEAN SAM, I'm skeptical it will evolve further as Indonesia is quite wary of it. And they as a country account for half of ASEAN's population. I doubt they would enjoy the fact that Singaporean and Malaysian carriers would be feasting on the 6th freedom opportunities in their country.
The Air Treaty with China not being adopted by all members indicates that there lies not just protectionism, but cynicism as well amongst member states.

The EU SAM has invigorated traffic in capital cities secondary airports like Stansted, Beauvais, Modlin Mazovia, Hahn, Girona and Rygge.
I wonder if we'll see the same for ASEAN as CRK for example, has long been open and has very low landing fees but has struggled to attract traffic.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

ASEAN Open Skies

Arianespace
Administrator
Eurest wrote
As for ASEAN SAM, I'm skeptical it will evolve further as Indonesia is quite wary of it. And they as a country account for half of ASEAN's population. I doubt they would enjoy the fact that Singaporean and Malaysian carriers would be feasting on the 6th freedom opportunities in their country.
The Air Treaty with China not being adopted by all members indicates that there lies not just protectionism, but cynicism as well amongst member states.

The EU SAM has invigorated traffic in capital cities secondary airports like Stansted, Beauvais, Modlin Mazovia, Hahn, Girona and Rygge.
I wonder if we'll see the same for ASEAN as CRK for example, has long been open and has very low landing fees but has struggled to attract traffic.
It's interesting you brought this up. In fairness to Indonesia, they did have opened the regional airports like the Philippines did. What they did not signed yet is the 6 and 7th protocol literally opening Jakarta. Laos however has a different reason which is understandable.


The Indonesian reason appears to be similar to ours, congested airport. Their airport is way bigger than ours but with a billion population, the rest of ASEAN becomes miniscule. You could well argue protectionism here but I don't think they are cynical about it.


The EU-SAM was created in 1992 before the signing of the Maastretch Treaty in 1993 to form what is now EU. It comprised 12 states. In the span of 5 years EU instituted among others 3 major liberalization packages. But before that, SAM was already discussed by the EEC in 1984 leading to the first package in 1987 which set out principles and foundation for EC liberalization, followed by the second package which set interim arrangements in 1990, and finally the MAAS in 1992.


Protectionist agenda was the stumbling block prior to and after the Union. The solution, dismantle government ownership to airlines. After dismantling government airline ownership, restriction eases and full cabotage rights become effective in 1 April 1997.


Since becoming effective in 1992, Air liberalization in Europe has been a gradual process spanning almost 10 years. And even today some community legislation relating to open skies are not yet implemented.


For example, the right of say France to negotiate with the Philippines on its ASA. France is no longer free to negotiate with third countries like the Philippines alone (restricted bilateral clause). They may only do so within a community framework of the EU. So agreement to give priority access of Air France to congested Manila airport is a no-no because it violates the rights of other EU airlines, even if we are talking only to France. This legislation has not been effected yet almost 25 years after it was conceived.


So you see, even our idol EU has having problems. Yet, brought up the LCC revolution to Europe which gave rise to the likes of Ryan Air which uses Stansted and Easyjet which made Luton airport famous for its airport. They are the airline duo that made famous alternate airports for regional centers around Europe. Except for Bangkok, that doesn't happen here yet. AirAsia tried CRK after DMK but failed.


What 1992 is for the EU is 2015 for ASEAN.  The second package I mentioned above is akin to Protocol 3 and 4 which gave rise to BIMP-EAGA Litigz mentioned earlier.


Even then UK enjoyed the Bermuda Treaty like Singapore  enjoys open skies with China. It took the EU 10 years to abrogate Bermuda to what it is now that benefit all. I expect similar path for ASEAN. Its not easy but definitely were heading in that direction.
Making Sense
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

A330 Regional

Arianespace
Administrator
In reply to this post by Eurest
Eurest wrote
Are there any ASEAN routes that PR has maximized their allotted seats or frequencies?
It's 5J that has maxed out on most if not all right?

Airbus has a prime opportunity then to offer 5J the A330 regional, allowing for more seats without having to find new NAIA slots
The 240pax A321NEO ACF might suffice for certain routes, but surely the 400 seat A330R would be better as we already see 5J successfully deploy their A330s to routes like SIN.
Losing 36 seats but gaining 23% in terms of efficiency and cheaper landing, navigation and airport fees might make the A330R very attractive for 5J
Only MNL-SIN. The rest needs filling. It maxes out because the rest of the rights were distributed to other airlines. It doesn't prevent airlines from up-gauging their fleet though.

As to up-gauging, 5J and PR regularly flies the heavy A330 to CEB and DVO. I think A330 regional won't work here considering that they are also rotated for long haul. Second, there are few points to service them ex MNL.
Making Sense
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

CNS/ATM

xzibit31
Arienspace, i think this is OT. But can you tell us what  the status is of the CNS/ATM project of the DOTC?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

CNS/ATM

Arianespace
Administrator
xzibit31 wrote
Arienspace, i think this is OT. But can you tell us what  the status is of the CNS/ATM project of the DOTC?

Not at all. It is part and parcel of the ASEAN Open Skies Project.

It should be up and running by November. Long overdue. It should have been installed in 2007. At least, everything is under the bridge now.

Here is the article that talks about it.

CNS-ATM system installed for better aviation oversight
by Kris Bayos

September 24, 2015

Philippine aviation authorities will have a new communications, navigation, surveillance and air traffic management (CNS-ATM) system to use in monitoring the country’s vast airspace by late 2016.

In a speech during the Philippine Aviation Summit yesterday, Transportation Secretary Joseph Emilio Abaya announced that the satellite-based CNS-ATM will be finally installed and operational, six years after the project was originally awarded.

“The installation of the infrastructure should be completed by May or April next year and the operationalization and commissioning should be completed by November. We should be able to utilize the new CNS ATM by last quarter of next year,” he said.
Making Sense
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: CNS/ATM

xzibit31
Thats good to know. I do hope that it comes online lat 2016.


There will be 7 stations right? Main is in Manila. Then 1 in Bacolod. Another 1 in Davao. Where will be the others located?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

CNS/ATM

Arianespace
Administrator
xzibit31 wrote
Thats good to know. I do hope that it comes online lat 2016.


There will be 7 stations right? Main is in Manila. Then 1 in Bacolod. Another 1 in Davao. Where will be the others located?
CNS/ATM Phase III

The CNS project has two packages. One is the building of ATM Center, and the other package is for installation of new CNS with satellite navigation equipment across 25 stations in the country. One of that airport happens to be where you are.

New facilities and satellite equipments will be installed in at least 25 airports and sites nationwide.

Laoag, Baguio,Clark, Subic, Plaridel, Manila, Legaspi, Puerto Princesa, San Jose, Caticlan, Kalibo, Roxas, Tacloban, Iloilo, Bacolod Mactan, Dumaguete, Butuan, Cagayan de Oro, Zamboanga, Cotabato, Davao and Gen.Santos. The other 2 is Tagaytay (Manila Control) and Majic (Mactan Control)
Making Sense
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

tigz
In reply to this post by Arianespace
So it appears the 6 airbus A359 signing is imminent in Seletar. Well, at least ccording to PhilStar and its Reuters source. The paper have had dubious releases in the past but if this is a hit then too bad for us 789 fans who hoped to see them at T2!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

MisterGuy13
Question. Why can't PAL have both the A359 and B787? Is it due to operational cost?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

airboy007
From the cabin operations standpoint, having both the A359 and B787 will divide the crew qualifications since CAAP only allows 4 types max for cabin crew. Currently the crew are rated for B777, A330/340, A321/320. If two types are operated you would have to divide the crew to operate one group of 4 planes, and another group of the other 4, making operations more difficult to manage.

That's not to mention the increased cost of training more sets for the flight deck crew, maintenance and parts, and ground handling in all stations. I guess the small number of 6-8 new wide bodies could not justify the added operational cost that would come with operating an increased number of a/c types.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

Unbreakable
In reply to this post by MisterGuy13
1. Less fleet variation - lower maintenance costs
2. a350 certification is easier since its similar to fly to an a330/a340

Hello, I've been lurking for the past year but finally decided to join. Got fed up with the armchair CEO in the other group. :))

Looks like the a350 is already a done deal.. questions now are the ff:

1. How many? reports say 6... but if PR plans to replace the 340s, they have options in mind? probably 4-6 more options? the current number of planes are not enough to support their expansion
2. are they also looking at the 800 series for thin EU routes?
3. Given that the oldest 777 (RP-C7777) is already turning 7 this year, they must have started looking for replacements.... 777-9 maybe?

Cheers!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

maortega15
The A358 is not offered anymore as that became the A330-800neo.

As for the 777, its ideal for them to go after the 779. Full passengers and cargo.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

seven13
In reply to this post by airboy007
Yes CAAP only allows 4 aircraft per cabin crew to operate at the same time but if I'm not mistaken, CAAP may allow a fifth variant given that it will be subjected to its approval. I'll have to check again if its for the operator only, or cabin crew included.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

It is Official: A350

chowpau
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: PR

romantic_guy08
In reply to this post by seven13


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: It is Official: A350

Eurest
In reply to this post by chowpau
Great news for PR passengers as the 18" seats of the A359 are definitely way better than the 16.7" of the B789

Surprised at the ff: details

i) Still at the MoU stage, despite the deal having started to be negotiated after 2015 A321 delivery reduction to 5 w/out financial penalty to PR's

ii) 300 seat config with J, Y+ and Y. Will PR finally have a true Premium Economy with a different hard product from Y or will we continue to see the more legroom Y+ that SMC started
B789 truly cannot compete for size required by PR

iii) 1st 2 frames to be delivered 4Q 2018, next 2 spread at 1Q and 2Q 2019. No word when 6 options are slated for delivery
What happened to the 2017 delivery dates? Did Iran take them all?
We know the A343 leases were extended but did not expect a 2 year extension. Not as bad with low fuel price but what about parts availability?
Or are the late 4Q dates related to the weight variant PR is getting?
2018 delivery dates meant A350-1000 was an option but stuck to A359, Airbus seems confident nnot just increasing the A359's MTOW but also being able to reduce MZFW by 2018
1 ... 55565758596061 ... 100