Airlines In The Philippines III

[Arianespace]

filipinoavgeek wrote

 Are there airlines that operate both the 787 and A330neo? I'm sure there is at least one out there, but none are coming to mind at the moment.

Virgin Atlantic to start. Just gave the clue about their future fleet.

[JNC03]

They also operate A350-1000s

[Solblanc]

Arianespace wrote

filipinoavgeek wrote

 Are there airlines that operate both the 787 and A330neo? I'm sure there is at least one out there, but none are coming to mind at the moment.

Virgin Atlantic to start. Just gave the clue about their future fleet.

VS operates both because of availability. They got early 787s and then the backlog got pretty intense so they got NEOs. It helped that they already operated the CEO.

In any case, the 777s can in theory be reconfigured to be extra-high density and redeployed to the Mideast, making it feasible to make the A330s 8-abreast.

If they do that, though, what’s the point of the NEO’s earlier delivery? They can probably wait for 787s. The -9 for their thin routes and the -10 for Mideast. They’ll come in time to replace the refurbished 777s and A330s and give proper ROI to the refurbishment

[Arianespace]

The point is to bind them to the fleet until at least 2030 in time for the arrival of their new medium haul fleet.

I also see now why PAL is not flying EU anytime soon. Not the reason its President told the press at the forum. Off the record, It was specifically ask not to overfly Russian Airspace. By the EU, which by sheer coincidence or not, also sponsors the forum. But PAL uses Siberia for its eastern seaboard flights, and will continue to fly in that direction. So you see, flights to EU is highly political. Accordingly, they are supporting Russia in their war against Ukraine by using Russian Airspace. As a matter of fact, we are the only western-allied country able to do so, thanks to a former President that makes his residency in the Hague.

[JNC03]

Titan Aviation Leasing (Titan), the joint venture between Titan Aviation Holdings, Inc., a subsidiary of Atlas Air Worldwide, and Bain Capital, has announced the acquisition of one Boeing 777-300ER aircraft.

The aircraft, manufacturer serial number (MSN) 61735, is currently on long-term lease to Philippine Airlines, the flag carrier of the Philippines. Titan will manage the asset.


https://www.aviationbusinessnews.com/cargo/cargo-news/titan-acquires-b777-300er-on-lease-to-philippine-airlines/

[Solblanc]

Arianespace wrote

The point is to bind them to the fleet until at least 2030 in time for the arrival of their new medium haul fleet.

I also see now why PAL is not flying EU anytime soon. Not the reason its President told the press at the forum. Off the record, It was specifically ask not to overfly Russian Airspace. By the EU, which by sheer coincidence or not, also sponsors the forum. But PAL uses Siberia for its eastern seaboard flights, and will continue to fly in that direction. So you see, flights to EU is highly political. Accordingly, they are supporting Russia in their war against Ukraine by using Russian Airspace. As a matter of fact, we are the only western-allied country able to do so, thanks to a former President that makes his residency in the Hague.

Even CX avoids Russian airspace as a concession to the EU as they can in theory overfly Russia as they are a Chinese airline. But indeed, Russian overflight to the EU is a sore spot when you see carriers like Finnair practically hemmed in and unable to take advantage of their geographic advantage. So the EU does what it can to take care of its own carriers. The US is not as fussed over their current leadership.

[JNC03]

In speaking of 77X

[kilohakdog]

Talking about PAL A350-900, was able to see RP-C3501 earlier today during my flight. That bird needs some cleaning. Hoping she gets the TLC she deserves while waiting for other A350s in the fleet.

[airline_builder]

PAL has an ULCC mentality in optimizing its fleet. If their planes had a soul, it would be a CODE BLUE everyday to keep it going.

[Arianespace]

PAL 747 wrote

Arianespace wrote

PAL 747 wrote

Your views are always welcome, as we take great pleasure in reading arguments on the other side.

Maybe perhaps you may want to read Airline Management by W.S. Barry, who discusses about National Prestige to airlines, and Government Subsidies to National Airlines, to sway your views a little. Its an old book from 1965 republished in 2018. It's a nice read. Basically gives you idea how the airline business was run then.

Europe as a destination was a product of government policy to introduce the Philippines to the world after it was granted independence by the United States in 1946. When ICAO was ratified in 1947, the government entered numerous Air Services Agreement with European countries. It also bought planes to show this national prestige as a new independent State. To countries that matter most. A thing that you can't do when your Australia, Singapore or Hong Kong.

One of these agreements was that of Great Britain and its colonies, effective Jan 1 1948, which gave rise to Kangaroo route. While the route is famous via Singapore flown by BOAC and Qantas, PAL flew it via Manila towards the heart of the empire. Yes, they flew the Kangaroo route as early as 1948 from London to Sydney. Naturally, the route was perfectly timed to connect from both ends. Karachi and Cairo was flown too in 1948, as well as Dhahran (now Dammam) which survives to this date, thanks to the OFW market.



While on balance sheet, the accounts look fine and profitable, the subsidy injected by government, ie post, weather, tourism, and transport,  to tilt balance of account window dressed what was reality. But it served the purpose at that time. Until it wasn't justifiable already that it was ordered stop on March 30, 1954. Selling all the DC-6 with it.

Running the prestige route gave PAL the 9th largest airliner in the world tag in terms of passenger miles, as it was computed then, and the most efficient airliner in 1949 spanning flight services to 2/3 of the world. I'm not the one saying that. PAL does.



So you see, it served its purpose well. As was intended. To have that small country in the Far East known throughout the world. And it did.

I gotta check that book out. Thanks!

Just a correction: PAL didn't serve Oz 1947-1954. They planned to do it but was never launched until 1965.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-vknsmDQk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oQ6UojolEw

Check out the IFE back in 1965 AND Luneta & Ayala Avenue!

Arianespace wrote

PAL 747 wrote

Arianespace wrote

PAL 747 wrote

Just a correction: PAL didn't serve Oz 1947-1954. They planned to do it but was never launched until 1965.

I'll be damned. If books and print ads were saying otherwise in 1948 contrary to what is said in 1965, I am inclined to believe the former more. Its better than wiki and youtube. And airlines won't claim it if they did not. Looking at the ad in 1948 is like saying London and San Francisco was just publicity stunt. But its not.

It was sad the route was short lived all because of the racist policy in Australia at that time not allowing Filipinos there. But it doesn't mean that it did not happen. Learn who Lorenzo Gamboa was. Its a political thing. That's why you won't find it. Its a bad blip in our nations history with the oz.

This is the 1952 version of the ad. Australia isn't there anymore.



1965 is when they came back with a jet when Australia finally got the balls to drop the white Australia policy. Hope it helps

And PAL historian got it wrong again. PAL as an airline first flew to Sydney on DC-6 doing contracts for the US military beginning 1948 then it was stopped. The DC-8 came into the picture only in 1965. I don't know the reason why this history is willfully and thoughtfully brushed off under the rug. Otherwise, they should also removed the tag as the first airline to cross the pacific because they were the same thing. Flying US servicemen.

Diplomacy perhaps to bury its racists past?

We really had a bad history with Australia's government after World War II. And that was a fact. Born perhaps by our recently acquired fervor on nationalism, and independence from the US while Australia remained a colony of the UK.

If you consider selective history to suit diplomacy, then that is revisionism, which I don't agree. But then, maybe geopolitics plays a role to erase our troubled past. You may want to read this and this one why they want to put int under the rug.

Sixty years ago, a Philippine Airlines DC-8 named Mabuhay touched down in Sydney with 86 passengers on board. It was the first direct flight between Manila and Sydney – and the beginning of a story that’s carried millions of Filipinos and Australians across the skies ever since.

From just two flights a week in 1965, the route has grown into a vital daily connection served by multiple airlines, linking two dynamic cities and two close friends in the Asia-Pacific.

Today, the Manila-Sydney connection is about more than air travel – it’s a living bridge for families, business, culture, and community, while showcasing the Heart of the Filipino.
https://pampanganewsnow.com/more-than-mateship-celebrating-60-years-of-ties-between-manila-and-sydney/

[justhorace]

Thanks for sharing this, arianespace. I feel bit ashamed as a Filipino that I did not even know about Gamboa's story. I am speaking a bit off the cuff here, and way out of topic, but the legacy of Australia's racist policies still reverberates today. This feels personal, and I think same would be true for many Filipinos, perhaps subconsciously, because we strain ourselves to uphold the image of being the "ideal immigrant". That's a shame on PAL if there really was an intention to suppress that piece of history. But maybe, as with many institutions in the Philippines, its memory isn't as sharp.

[JNC03]

New assignment for ex PR A350-900s

Discover Airlines, the Lufthansa Group's leisure airline, is continuing its growth trajectory and expanding its fleet to 40 aircraft by mid-2028. The future flagship of the long-haul fleet is set to be the state-of-the-art Airbus A350-900. From mid-2027, the plan is to gradually integrate four of these particularly efficient and comfortable aircraft into the fleet.


https://newsroom-en.discover-airlines.com/pressreleases/on-course-for-growth-discover-airlines-significantly-expands-its-fleet-and-plans-to-operate-airbus-a350-aircraft-3410787

[Arianespace]

Welcome. You see, even google AI is accurate on this one on why the services stopped in 1949. Google is smart.

President Elpidio Quirino strongly condemned Australia's discriminatory "White Australia" immigration policy after it became a diplomatic incident in 1949 involving Filipino migration. While Philippine Airlines (PAL) was involved in flights to and from the region, the controversy was not initiated by the airline itself but by the racist policies of the Australian government.

Background: The Lorenzo Gamboa case
The policy: Under Australia's White Australia Policy, enacted in 1901, immigration officials used a dictation test to prevent the entry of non-European migrants. This led to numerous cases of discrimination against people from Asia and the Pacific Islands.

The incident: The controversy that angered President Quirino centered on Filipino-American war veteran Lorenzo Gamboa. Gamboa, who served with the Australian and U.S. forces, was married to an Australian woman and was raising a family in Melbourne.

Deportation attempt: After the war, Australian Minister for Immigration Arthur Calwell attempted to deport Gamboa, citing the White Australia Policy. Calwell even stated that allowing Gamboa to stay would promote "miscegenation".

International condemnation: The Gamboa case attracted significant media attention in Australia and caused outrage in the Philippines. In 1949, President Quirino publicly stated that Filipinos were "deeply humiliated" by the Australian government's actions, which severely damaged early diplomatic relations between the two countries.

Philippine Airlines' involvement
Connection to the incident: Philippine Airlines' only direct connection to this racial policy concerned transportation logistics. As the national flag carrier, PAL was involved in transporting both official government figures and citizens.

Supporting nationals: In the Gamboa case, PAL would have been the airline responsible for carrying Filipino nationals traveling to Australia. However, the travel difficulties as a result of Australian government policy caused Philippine Airlines to abandon service.

[Evodesire]

So definitely, those ex PR A350s are no longer coming back.

[Arianespace]

Solblanc wrote

Even CX avoids Russian airspace as a concession to the EU as they can in theory overfly Russia as they are a Chinese airline. But indeed, Russian overflight to the EU is a sore spot when you see carriers like Finnair practically hemmed in and unable to take advantage of their geographic advantage. So the EU does what it can to take care of its own carriers. The US is not as fussed over their current leadership.

Not for long though, PAL could be next

WASHINGTON, Oct 9 (Reuters) – The Trump administration on Thursday proposed banning Chinese airlines from flying over Russia on routes to and from the United States, saying the reduced flight time this practice enables puts American carriers at a disadvantage.

I don't know how it works out as it is none of US business where airlines fly beyond their controlled airspace, ie Alaska. This was according to its Foreign Secretary Wang Yi.

Chinese airlines asked for reconsideration to US DOT. As to its expected implementation, China's flag carrier has also urged the US' transportation department to allow a grace period of at least 60 days, should they decide to move ahead with the proposal. The grace period is to allow the passengers to rebook and to minimize any disruption to its operations.
 
Other airlines that have submitted official filings in response to the proposal include China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, Xiamen Airlines, and Sichuan Airlines.

With this latest development, PAL is scheduling the 35K to JFK as the 359 does not have the legs to do the deviation. I think they were already warned about this, thus Nutall's announcement on where it will go .

[Solblanc]

Arianespace wrote

Solblanc wrote

Even CX avoids Russian airspace as a concession to the EU as they can in theory overfly Russia as they are a Chinese airline. But indeed, Russian overflight to the EU is a sore spot when you see carriers like Finnair practically hemmed in and unable to take advantage of their geographic advantage. So the EU does what it can to take care of its own carriers. The US is not as fussed over their current leadership.

Not for long though, PAL could be next

WASHINGTON, Oct 9 (Reuters) – The Trump administration on Thursday proposed banning Chinese airlines from flying over Russia on routes to and from the United States, saying the reduced flight time this practice enables puts American carriers at a disadvantage.

I don't know how it works out as it is none of US business where airlines fly beyond their controlled airspace, ie Alaska. This was according to its Foreign Secretary Wang Yi.

Chinese airlines asked for reconsideration to US DOT. As to its expected implementation, China's flag carrier has also urged the US' transportation department to allow a grace period of at least 60 days, should they decide to move ahead with the proposal. The grace period is to allow the passengers to rebook and to minimize any disruption to its operations.
 
Other airlines that have submitted official filings in response to the proposal include China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, Xiamen Airlines, and Sichuan Airlines.

With this latest development, PAL is scheduling the 35K to JFK as the 359 does not have the legs to do the deviation. I think they were already warned about this, thus Nutall's announcement on where it will go .

Wasn’t it also mentioned before that the 35K will have two layouts, as 10-abreast won’t make JFK? Or will they just settle for blocking seats?

[romantic_guy08]

anyone know where RP-C8764 is going? she just left MNL as PR6764 which usually means, maintenance ferry flight...

Edit: NVM ferry flight to CRK... maintenance or refurb?

[JNC03]

PAL will receive two A320s for PAL Express

One of them is sharklet, a first one for the airline. It will come from Europe and Asia


There is a unconfirmed rumor that PAL has a "secret aircraft purchase" from United States

[xzibit31]

JNC03 wrote

PAL will receive two A320s for PAL Express

One of them is sharklet, a first one for the airline. It will come from Europe and Asia


There is a unconfirmed rumor that PAL has a "secret aircraft purchase" from United States

Good news for 2P then.

What secret aircraft would that be? Most likely a Boeing.

[filipinoavgeek]

787s? There's no way they would get MAXes.